Sash windows

thehairybuilder

I`d recommend replacement every time
BUT
Nobody seems to realise to can replace with new timber sash`n`case windows . The words sash`n`case and pvc should never be mentioned in the same breath nor sentence.
If they need replaced , simply replace with wooden ones
i.e. supply only of 18 large sash`n`case windows £8500 manufactured to meet current regs , 1.4 blah blah
I don`t see why anyone would spend £300 odd repairing old windows if they could buy new ones for under £500
JMO

rachbc

thehairybuilder wrote: »

I`d recommend replacement every time
BUT
Nobody seems to realise to can replace with new timber sash`n`case windows . The words sash`n`case and pvc should never be mentioned in the same breath nor sentence.
If they need replaced , simply replace with wooden ones
i.e. supply only of 18 large sash`n`case windows £8500 manufactured to meet current regs , 1.4 blah blah
I don`t see why anyone would spend £300 odd repairing old windows if they could buy new ones for under £500
JMO

Because even new wood sashes don't look as good as the original ones - the frames of all the replacements in our street are chunkier and less elegant than the originals, and if you have 10 windows to replace then saving 200 on each one is still a big saving!

chrisg1985

rachbc wrote: »

Because even new wood sashes don't look as good as the original ones - the frames of all the replacements in our street are chunkier and less elegant than the originals, and if you have 10 windows to replace then saving 200 on each one is still a big saving!

The 'chunky' windows are not made by genuine sash window specialists.

Most of us can still keep a 44mm lambs tongue profile. 105mm front cheek 95 inner. Essentially the same size as originals just deeper for the double glazed unit effectively

Obviously the depth increases to allow for a deeper rebate.

I agree entirely - there is nothing nicer than a restored/decorated original sash window with old architectural salvage glass that's got imperfections and slightly distorted.

£500 for what I have described above joinery wise? No Chance. £1500.00 Maybe. Thats a saving of £12k if you refurb 10 windows. Always save your original joinery if you can.

chrisg1985

thehairybuilder wrote: »

I`d recommend replacement every time
BUT
Nobody seems to realise to can replace with new timber sash`n`case windows . The words sash`n`case and pvc should never be mentioned in the same breath nor sentence.
If they need replaced , simply replace with wooden ones
i.e. supply only of 18 large sash`n`case windows £8500 manufactured to meet current regs , 1.4 blah blah
I don`t see why anyone would spend £300 odd repairing old windows if they could buy new ones for under £500
JMO

You cannot buy the quality described above for less than £500.00. Impossible, you might be able to buy the junk Rach above talked about - top hinged mock sash. That would not include fitting. I don't like to berate people in the same trade as me but this is post is garbage.

If it's just your english that is dificult to understand and you can make traditional joinery and install it for £500.00 a go I will gladly send you work. As much as you like PM me please.

leveller2911

As with any Joinery quote there are lots of questions to ask.

Material: Are the Boxframes constructed from Softwood(not advisable)Sapele,Brazilian Cedar, Oak etc etc. Softwood is cheapest,but wont last much longer than about 10 yrs,Sapele and Brazilian Cedar 35-40 years and Oak 100+ years.

Are they Traditional Weighted Boxframes?,if so the price of weights have increased a lot over the past couple of years.Spiral Balances are cheaper, but In my opinion are not asthetically nice and tend to break frequently,or and they dont run as smoothly as cords.

Single or double glazed? Again big difference in price from one to the other, I my area very few Listed planning officers will allow DG.

Weather stripping and quality of fasteners,sash lifts and pulleys differ widely.

I make Box frame windows and making 1 will be far more expensive per window than making 5 or 6, The more you make at the same time the cost comes down Dramatically BUT theres No way 18 Traditional Box-frames made from a decent hardwood to a high standard would cost £8.5k ...

More like £18k.........If I make 1 on its own , say a 6 over 6 ,Hardwood,Lead weights,Quality Hardwood,Brass pulleys with bearings and single glazed ,supply only would be around £1500.......EDIT and thats +VAT

chrisg1985

leveller2911 wrote: »

As with any Joinery quote there are lots of questions to ask.

Material: Are the Boxframes constructed from Softwood(not advisable)Sapele,Brazilian Cedar, Oak etc etc. Softwood is cheapest,but wont last much longer than about 10 yrs,Sapele and Brazilian Cedar 35-40 years and Oak 100+ years.

Are they Traditional Weighted Boxframes?,if so the price of weights have increased a lot over the past couple of years.

Single or double glazed? Again big difference in price from one to the other, I my area very few Listed planning officers will allow DG.

Weather stripping and quality of fasteners,sash lifts and pulleys differ widely.

I make Box frame windows and making 1 will be far more expensive per window than making 5 or 6, The more you make at the same time the cost comes down Dramatically BUT theres No way 18 Traditional Box-frames made from a decent hardwood to a high standard would cost £8.5k ...

More like £18k.........If I make 1 on its own , say a 6 over 6 ,Hardwood,Lead weights,Quality Hardwood,Brass pulleys with bearings and single glazed ,supply only would be around £1500.......EDIT and thats +VAT

Totally agree leveller although I can't see the problem with using bc pine and a hw sill section? What are you finishing your windows with?
http://www.syntema.co.uk

Worth a look. I have not had any comeback on my joinery in the last ten years using bc pine or hw.

Also if your lucky enough to be installing sg might be worth ringing up some of the plastic companies for thier cast iron. before April 2002 I used to do this and got thier 8/12 lbs weights for £1.00 each!! Makes a huge saving. Also I have about 500+ 4/6 lbs weights which are practically worthless to me if your interested in collecting them.Would be glad to see them go back to good use.Was going to get the lads to take them to the scrap yard but it's like £29.00 a ton.Cheers

leveller2911

Hi Chris, I tend to treat mine with Dulux weathershield,preservative primer.Sadly theyve just started replacing it with a water based one, so Im on the look out for something else,although I know its all going WB soon.Cheers for the Link.

I agree BC pine is ok and can last years.I generally use Sapele but going over to Brazilian Cedar as it doesn't blunt tooling as much.

I do keep most of the old weights I take out and have used them before with "Add weights"...
4-6" lbs ers are a bit too light to use today, they use to be just the job when they used 2mm glass:D..

chrisg1985

leveller2911 wrote: »

Hi Chris, I tend to treat mine with Dulux weathershield,preservative primer.Sadly theyve just started replacing it with a water based one, so Im on the look out for something else,although I know its all going WB soon.

I agree BC pine is ok and can last years.I generally use Sapele but going over to Brazilian Cedar as it doesn't blunt tooling as much.

I do keep most of the old weights I take out and have used them before with "Add weights"...
4-6" lbs ers are a bit too light to use today, they use to be just the job when they used 2mm glass:D..

yeh that's why I have so many sadly not useable for me either, don't like adding makeweights to them as they make noise juddering on top of each other but def look into calling up the plastic companies in London for thier larger weights. Saved me a fortune. Sadly 95% of my work is DG now because of this FENSA carry on so it's all massively costly lead. I do have a guy that does 75p per lb and carriage in London is free. If you have any cheaper please share because the price of Lead sends me mad!

Syntema is great if you use a spray booth. Bit expensive though! It is a treatment with a white pigment if that makes sense?

Cheers Chris

leveller2911

75p per lb is good, Sash weights .com are about 98p, I tend to deal with Mighton a fair bit, they seem pretty reliable too.

I make DG boxframes but mostly single glazed.What would you say is the max size of Boxframe you would use weights on???.

I tend to use Mighton for their weather stripping too.Their Part bead is very good, but im not that impressed with their standard weatherstrip seal...I always use Aquamac 21 on casememnts too...

I also use Arboseal rather than Flexistrip,flexi bond as It adheres better to the glass IMHO..

www.arbo.co.uk

chrisg1985

leveller2911 wrote: »

75p per lb is good, Sash weights .com are about 98p, I tend to deal with Mighton a fair bit, they seem pretty reliable too.

I make DG boxframes but mostly single glazed.What would you say is the max size of Boxframe you would use weights on???.

I tend to use Mighton for their weather stripping too.Their Part bead is very good, but im not that impressed with their standard weatherstrip seal...I always use Aquamac 21 on casememnts too...

I will pm you my guy for lead later. It's not quite as prestine as Mighton lead but essentially does the job! I like mighton and reddiseals. I like them all really can't complain much on supplier front but for out and out cost woodstock gb is best on standard items (cord pile carrier pile)

I run my own parting and staff bead on the spindle with a 8mm by 4mm groove for standard U section and brush pile.

I like Aquamac 21 on casements and doors too although for sash windows we have tried and tested everything and have personally found the best to be standard U Section and Brush Pile. Sorry by U Section I mean pile carrier.

I think my opinion is biased somewhat with seals because with restoration it's fair to say standard brush pile works best and so we have naturally incorporated it into our new windows.

Not to say we don't use rubber as we have used this when architects specify. Again that's not to say it's best more what they know is on the market

When you say weights do you mean cast iron? Whenever I double glaze I have to use lead or if I am extremely lucky I will have got some big square cast iron from salvage yards. Reason being is to gain full travel on the windows.Although salvage yards are getting greedy now - they want 10 quid a weight. Still works out super value as they are 20-40lbs

Cheers
Chris