Energy myth-busting: Is it cheaper to have heating on all day?

richardc1983

No, hence why people need to experiment and see what works for themselves. It’s no good dismissing other ideas because you think it won’t work. 

Ultrasonic

richardc1983 said:

Yeah I work from home so the house is occupied at 19c and then 18c when out or in bed as like a cool room at night. My rads never go above 35c if it’s cold outside usually they don’t even feel like they are on but the house is warm and comfortable. My gas usage was 1264kwh for the month of February. 

Being at home most of the time makes it a very different situation to mine, where for comparison I didn't have heating on at all from I'd guess about 19:00 last night to 16:15 today (being out of the house for work from 7:00 till 16:15 today). I can do this comfortably since my heating can warm my lounge up quickly when I get home, coupled with the fact that I start off warm from cycling home and sit relatively close to the radiator. Running radiators at 35°C obviously wouldn't work well for me though  . Oh, and having radiators never going above 35°C is far more 'not what people do' than the door discussion above!

I know the 'constantly on' discussion is the longer one but I actually joined in to comment on the zones aspect which I also feel is important, and I'm certain that for my own circumstances I'd use far more energy trying to heat my whole house to the same temperature. As above, the time it takes heat to escape from hotter areas is key here.

P.s. in case you missed it, my total gas use for the last year is 3202 kWh. I'm not trying to 'compete' but making it clear that it's possible to be a low energy user in other ways than yours, whilst also highlighting that differences in our lifestyles may make what each of us do more suitable for each of us.

QrizB

I've deleted my comment as it wasn't helpful.

richardc1983

Ultrasonic said:

richardc1983 said:

Yeah I work from home so the house is occupied at 19c and then 18c when out or in bed as like a cool room at night. My rads never go above 35c if it’s cold outside usually they don’t even feel like they are on but the house is warm and comfortable. My gas usage was 1264kwh for the month of February. 

Being at home most of the time makes it a very different situation to mine, where for comparison I didn't have heating on at all from I'd guess about 19:00 last night to 16:15 today (being out of the house for work from 7:00 till 16:15 today). I can do this comfortably since my heating can warm my lounge up quickly when I get home, coupled with the fact that I start off warm from cycling home and sit relatively close to the radiator. Running radiators at 35°C obviously wouldn't work well for me though  . Oh, and having radiators never going above 35°C is far more 'not what people do' than the door discussion above!

I know the 'constantly on' discussion is the longer one but I actually joined in to comment on the zones aspect which I also feel is important, and I'm certain that for my own circumstances I'd use far more energy trying to heat my whole house to the same temperature. As above, the time it takes heat to escape from hotter areas is key here.

P.s. in case you missed it, my total gas use for the last year is 3202 kWh. I'm not trying to 'compete' but making it clear that it's possible to be a low energy user in other ways than yours, whilst also highlighting that differences in our lifestyles may make what each of us do more suitable for each of us.

Well said I agree with your points. I think it’s recognising that we need to move away from high temp rads and boilers not running in condensing mode this is old tech. There are millions of condensing boilers installed, that never condense. So the efficiencies advertised are never met. Intergas actually limit the max flow temp from the factory to 55c. You can override it if you want but it doesn’t;’t come set at full range as default. 

Here’s a good podcast that I have quite enjoyed, still around the same topic but more specifically about the issue we have in the u.k with installers not embracing the new control technologies that are available.  Have a listen if you got time. 

https://betatalk.buzzsprout.com/509671/10016742

Ultrasonic

richardc1983 said:

Ultrasonic said:

richardc1983 said:

Yeah I work from home so the house is occupied at 19c and then 18c when out or in bed as like a cool room at night. My rads never go above 35c if it’s cold outside usually they don’t even feel like they are on but the house is warm and comfortable. My gas usage was 1264kwh for the month of February. 

Being at home most of the time makes it a very different situation to mine, where for comparison I didn't have heating on at all from I'd guess about 19:00 last night to 16:15 today (being out of the house for work from 7:00 till 16:15 today). I can do this comfortably since my heating can warm my lounge up quickly when I get home, coupled with the fact that I start off warm from cycling home and sit relatively close to the radiator. Running radiators at 35°C obviously wouldn't work well for me though  . Oh, and having radiators never going above 35°C is far more 'not what people do' than the door discussion above!

I know the 'constantly on' discussion is the longer one but I actually joined in to comment on the zones aspect which I also feel is important, and I'm certain that for my own circumstances I'd use far more energy trying to heat my whole house to the same temperature. As above, the time it takes heat to escape from hotter areas is key here.

P.s. in case you missed it, my total gas use for the last year is 3202 kWh. I'm not trying to 'compete' but making it clear that it's possible to be a low energy user in other ways than yours, whilst also highlighting that differences in our lifestyles may make what each of us do more suitable for each of us.

Well said I agree with your points. I think it’s recognising that we need to move away from high temp rads and boilers not running in condensing mode this is old tech. There are millions of condensing boilers installed, that never condense. So the efficiencies advertised are never met. Intergas actually limit the max flow temp from the factory to 55c. You can override it if you want but it doesn’t;’t come set at full range as default. 

Here’s a good podcast that I have quite enjoyed, still around the same topic but more specifically about the issue we have in the u.k with installers not embracing the new control technologies that are available.  Have a listen if you got time. 

https://betatalk.buzzsprout.com/509671/10016742

Out of curiosity, does it make an difference that I use a combi-boiler?

richardc1983

Ultrasonic said:

richardc1983 said:

Ultrasonic said:

richardc1983 said:

Yeah I work from home so the house is occupied at 19c and then 18c when out or in bed as like a cool room at night. My rads never go above 35c if it’s cold outside usually they don’t even feel like they are on but the house is warm and comfortable. My gas usage was 1264kwh for the month of February. 

Being at home most of the time makes it a very different situation to mine, where for comparison I didn't have heating on at all from I'd guess about 19:00 last night to 16:15 today (being out of the house for work from 7:00 till 16:15 today). I can do this comfortably since my heating can warm my lounge up quickly when I get home, coupled with the fact that I start off warm from cycling home and sit relatively close to the radiator. Running radiators at 35°C obviously wouldn't work well for me though  . Oh, and having radiators never going above 35°C is far more 'not what people do' than the door discussion above!

I know the 'constantly on' discussion is the longer one but I actually joined in to comment on the zones aspect which I also feel is important, and I'm certain that for my own circumstances I'd use far more energy trying to heat my whole house to the same temperature. As above, the time it takes heat to escape from hotter areas is key here.

P.s. in case you missed it, my total gas use for the last year is 3202 kWh. I'm not trying to 'compete' but making it clear that it's possible to be a low energy user in other ways than yours, whilst also highlighting that differences in our lifestyles may make what each of us do more suitable for each of us.

Well said I agree with your points. I think it’s recognising that we need to move away from high temp rads and boilers not running in condensing mode this is old tech. There are millions of condensing boilers installed, that never condense. So the efficiencies advertised are never met. Intergas actually limit the max flow temp from the factory to 55c. You can override it if you want but it doesn’t;’t come set at full range as default. 

Here’s a good podcast that I have quite enjoyed, still around the same topic but more specifically about the issue we have in the u.k with installers not embracing the new control technologies that are available.  Have a listen if you got time. 

https://betatalk.buzzsprout.com/509671/10016742

Out of curiosity, does it make an difference that I use a combi-boiler?

A combi boiler does both your heating and hot water, but it’s whether it spends much time in condensing mode. Your gas use seems low, have you toyed with the idea of lowering your flow temp on the boiler so it spends more time in condensing mode. 

Ultrasonic

richardc1983 said:

Ultrasonic said:

richardc1983 said:

Ultrasonic said:

richardc1983 said:

Yeah I work from home so the house is occupied at 19c and then 18c when out or in bed as like a cool room at night. My rads never go above 35c if it’s cold outside usually they don’t even feel like they are on but the house is warm and comfortable. My gas usage was 1264kwh for the month of February. 

Being at home most of the time makes it a very different situation to mine, where for comparison I didn't have heating on at all from I'd guess about 19:00 last night to 16:15 today (being out of the house for work from 7:00 till 16:15 today). I can do this comfortably since my heating can warm my lounge up quickly when I get home, coupled with the fact that I start off warm from cycling home and sit relatively close to the radiator. Running radiators at 35°C obviously wouldn't work well for me though  . Oh, and having radiators never going above 35°C is far more 'not what people do' than the door discussion above!

I know the 'constantly on' discussion is the longer one but I actually joined in to comment on the zones aspect which I also feel is important, and I'm certain that for my own circumstances I'd use far more energy trying to heat my whole house to the same temperature. As above, the time it takes heat to escape from hotter areas is key here.

P.s. in case you missed it, my total gas use for the last year is 3202 kWh. I'm not trying to 'compete' but making it clear that it's possible to be a low energy user in other ways than yours, whilst also highlighting that differences in our lifestyles may make what each of us do more suitable for each of us.

Well said I agree with your points. I think it’s recognising that we need to move away from high temp rads and boilers not running in condensing mode this is old tech. There are millions of condensing boilers installed, that never condense. So the efficiencies advertised are never met. Intergas actually limit the max flow temp from the factory to 55c. You can override it if you want but it doesn’t;’t come set at full range as default. 

Here’s a good podcast that I have quite enjoyed, still around the same topic but more specifically about the issue we have in the u.k with installers not embracing the new control technologies that are available.  Have a listen if you got time. 

https://betatalk.buzzsprout.com/509671/10016742

Out of curiosity, does it make an difference that I use a combi-boiler?

A combi boiler does both your heating and hot water, but it’s whether it spends much time in condensing mode. Your gas use seems low, have you toyed with the idea of lowering your flow temp on the boiler so it spends more time in condensing mode. 

I was just Googling to try to find some more info relevant to my boiler (Vaillant EcoTec Pro 28). As above though, I don't want to end up with my heating taking too long to heat up or it may be counter productive. I've got the temperature for the heating set to 70°C currently but can't actually remember why now! 

richardc1983

Ultrasonic said:

richardc1983 said:

Ultrasonic said:

richardc1983 said:

Ultrasonic said:

richardc1983 said:

Yeah I work from home so the house is occupied at 19c and then 18c when out or in bed as like a cool room at night. My rads never go above 35c if it’s cold outside usually they don’t even feel like they are on but the house is warm and comfortable. My gas usage was 1264kwh for the month of February. 

Being at home most of the time makes it a very different situation to mine, where for comparison I didn't have heating on at all from I'd guess about 19:00 last night to 16:15 today (being out of the house for work from 7:00 till 16:15 today). I can do this comfortably since my heating can warm my lounge up quickly when I get home, coupled with the fact that I start off warm from cycling home and sit relatively close to the radiator. Running radiators at 35°C obviously wouldn't work well for me though  . Oh, and having radiators never going above 35°C is far more 'not what people do' than the door discussion above!

I know the 'constantly on' discussion is the longer one but I actually joined in to comment on the zones aspect which I also feel is important, and I'm certain that for my own circumstances I'd use far more energy trying to heat my whole house to the same temperature. As above, the time it takes heat to escape from hotter areas is key here.

P.s. in case you missed it, my total gas use for the last year is 3202 kWh. I'm not trying to 'compete' but making it clear that it's possible to be a low energy user in other ways than yours, whilst also highlighting that differences in our lifestyles may make what each of us do more suitable for each of us.

Well said I agree with your points. I think it’s recognising that we need to move away from high temp rads and boilers not running in condensing mode this is old tech. There are millions of condensing boilers installed, that never condense. So the efficiencies advertised are never met. Intergas actually limit the max flow temp from the factory to 55c. You can override it if you want but it doesn’t;’t come set at full range as default. 

Here’s a good podcast that I have quite enjoyed, still around the same topic but more specifically about the issue we have in the u.k with installers not embracing the new control technologies that are available.  Have a listen if you got time. 

https://betatalk.buzzsprout.com/509671/10016742

Out of curiosity, does it make an difference that I use a combi-boiler?

A combi boiler does both your heating and hot water, but it’s whether it spends much time in condensing mode. Your gas use seems low, have you toyed with the idea of lowering your flow temp on the boiler so it spends more time in condensing mode. 

I was just Googling to try to find some more info relevant to my boiler (Vaillant EcoTec Pro 28). As above though, I don't want to end up with my heating taking too long to heat up or it may be counter productive. I've got the temperature for the heating set to 70°C currently but can't actually remember why now! 

At 70c flow temp your boiler will never be in condensing mode. Condensing starts at 55c and then below, so the cooler the water going back to the boiler the better. Try it at 55-60c and see if there’s any improvement. Ratings are at a 45c return so if you can manage at 50c flow temp and you can get 45c return back to the boiler from the rads then you are winning. 

Yes it might take a little longer to warm up but your boiler will be working more efficiently and recovering more heat from the gases that would otherwise just go out the flu. 

richardc1983

Here’s another really good article written by the heating hub. For many they are making choice between heat or eat. Would you rather have the heating on for longer at a lower overall temperature in the house or short bursts for say a couple of hours at a time but then freezing the rest of the time.

https://www.theheatinghub.co.uk/articles/turn-down-the-boiler-flow-temperature

Pay particular attention to point 4. 

Also this one which explains the problem in the U.K…

https://www.theheatinghub.co.uk/why-our-condensing-boilers-do-not-condense

Ultrasonic

richardc1983 said:

Ultrasonic said:

richardc1983 said:

Ultrasonic said:

richardc1983 said:

Ultrasonic said:

richardc1983 said:

Yeah I work from home so the house is occupied at 19c and then 18c when out or in bed as like a cool room at night. My rads never go above 35c if it’s cold outside usually they don’t even feel like they are on but the house is warm and comfortable. My gas usage was 1264kwh for the month of February. 

Being at home most of the time makes it a very different situation to mine, where for comparison I didn't have heating on at all from I'd guess about 19:00 last night to 16:15 today (being out of the house for work from 7:00 till 16:15 today). I can do this comfortably since my heating can warm my lounge up quickly when I get home, coupled with the fact that I start off warm from cycling home and sit relatively close to the radiator. Running radiators at 35°C obviously wouldn't work well for me though  . Oh, and having radiators never going above 35°C is far more 'not what people do' than the door discussion above!

I know the 'constantly on' discussion is the longer one but I actually joined in to comment on the zones aspect which I also feel is important, and I'm certain that for my own circumstances I'd use far more energy trying to heat my whole house to the same temperature. As above, the time it takes heat to escape from hotter areas is key here.

P.s. in case you missed it, my total gas use for the last year is 3202 kWh. I'm not trying to 'compete' but making it clear that it's possible to be a low energy user in other ways than yours, whilst also highlighting that differences in our lifestyles may make what each of us do more suitable for each of us.

Well said I agree with your points. I think it’s recognising that we need to move away from high temp rads and boilers not running in condensing mode this is old tech. There are millions of condensing boilers installed, that never condense. So the efficiencies advertised are never met. Intergas actually limit the max flow temp from the factory to 55c. You can override it if you want but it doesn’t;’t come set at full range as default. 

Here’s a good podcast that I have quite enjoyed, still around the same topic but more specifically about the issue we have in the u.k with installers not embracing the new control technologies that are available.  Have a listen if you got time. 

https://betatalk.buzzsprout.com/509671/10016742

Out of curiosity, does it make an difference that I use a combi-boiler?

A combi boiler does both your heating and hot water, but it’s whether it spends much time in condensing mode. Your gas use seems low, have you toyed with the idea of lowering your flow temp on the boiler so it spends more time in condensing mode. 

I was just Googling to try to find some more info relevant to my boiler (Vaillant EcoTec Pro 28). As above though, I don't want to end up with my heating taking too long to heat up or it may be counter productive. I've got the temperature for the heating set to 70°C currently but can't actually remember why now! 

At 70c flow temp your boiler will never be in condensing mode. Condensing starts at 55c and then below, so the cooler the water going back to the boiler the better. Try it at 55c and see if there’s any improvement. 

Yes it might take a little longer to warm up but your boiler will be working more efficiently and recovering more heat from the gases that would otherwise just go out the flu. 

What I've just been looking for but failed to find is some representative data on how the efficiency may vary with temperature.  Also, isn't Legionella a concern if water is below 60°C?

I suspect the relatively small size radiators in my house may become an issue if I drop the temperature too low but I'll only know by trying I suppose.