Energy myth-busting: Is it cheaper to have heating on all day?

Cardew

QrizB said:

Northern_Wanderer said:

richardc1983 said:

There's the reasoning behind that as well. Another good video for consideration...

Oh god! That vid is a bit much for me but I get the gist of it (kinda?) lol. I'd not thought about "zoning" before but I can see how my cold unused room is now like an added external wall in terms of heat loss?

But I am not prepared to spend the time and effort it would take to debunk his errors; I have better things to do.

My concern is the context of the video and the message he is sending.

Every 'fact' is so heavily caveated, and can be countered by the statement 'that might be true in a few circumstances - but'

richardc1983

That's the point of modulating controls and night set back though. 

 Ultrasonic said:

richardc1983 said:

Ultrasonic said:

richardc1983 said:

Not if internal doors are left open, e.g some people turn spare bedrooms down but leave internal doors open, this is the point he is making.

Well yes, but there might just be a solution to that if you think about it... 🙄

But that’s not how most people use their homes. If you use any of the rooms then heat them the same as the other rooms. I wouldn’t shut doors to rooms I don’t use due to risk of stale or damp build up. Keeping the air moving is key. 

People who choose to heat some rooms more than others to save money do though! You can't dismiss the logic because you'd apparently leave the doors open.

I'm in my lounge at the moment and the door is shut. I obviously open and close it many times per day to walk in and out so it's not like it's hermetically sealed and some sort of stale room as a result. Having the door shut does though help keep the room warmer for a lot longer than if I had it open the to cooler hallway beyond. 

Going back to my original point about time, there is a very important distinction to be made between simpler steady-state models that assume a fixed temperature in each room 24/7, and the real-world situation of just having rooms at higher temperatures at the times they need to be. For the latter, the time it takes heat to escape from a room matters. Even people who rarely leave their homes don't need rooms to be as warm at night.

Ultrasonic

richardc1983 said:

That's the point of modulating controls and night set back though. 

You can't just dismiss everything I've posted with that quip!

Cardew

richardc1983 said:

QrizB said:

Northern_Wanderer said:

richardc1983 said:

There's the reasoning behind that as well. Another good video for consideration...

Oh god! That vid is a bit much for me but I get the gist of it (kinda?) lol. I'd not thought about "zoning" before but I can see how my cold unused room is now like an added external wall in terms of heat loss?

That's one of the things he's simply wrong about.

But I am not prepared to spend the time and effort it would take to debunk his errors; I have better things to do.

 It doesn’t suit everyone but a heat pump for example would use more energy having 2 timed periods a day at 60c flow temp than low and slow all day. It’s no diff for mains gas boilers if you run them in the same way, you will save energy although gas is cheaper per unit of electricity so the savings are less substantial.

That is such a  sweeping generalisation to be meaningless; and demonstrates the problem with the video.

1. How long are the '2 timed periods a day at 60C?' 1 minute? 1 hour? 4 hours?

2. What temperature are you trying to achieve in the house?

3. and many other factors

richardc1983

Cardew said:

richardc1983 said:

QrizB said:

Northern_Wanderer said:

richardc1983 said:

There's the reasoning behind that as well. Another good video for consideration...

Oh god! That vid is a bit much for me but I get the gist of it (kinda?) lol. I'd not thought about "zoning" before but I can see how my cold unused room is now like an added external wall in terms of heat loss?

That's one of the things he's simply wrong about.

But I am not prepared to spend the time and effort it would take to debunk his errors; I have better things to do.

 It doesn’t suit everyone but a heat pump for example would use more energy having 2 timed periods a day at 60c flow temp than low and slow all day. It’s no diff for mains gas boilers if you run them in the same way, you will save energy although gas is cheaper per unit of electricity so the savings are less substantial.

That is such a  sweeping generalisation to be meaningless; and demonstrates the problem with the video.

1. How long are the '2 timed periods a day at 60C?' 1 minute? 1 hour? 4 hours?

2. What temperature are you trying to achieve in the house?

3. and many other factors

As he says based on many other factors. Always worth considering though. Not everything is black and white. 

Cardew

richardc1983 said:

Cardew said:

richardc1983 said:

QrizB said:

Northern_Wanderer said:

richardc1983 said:

There's the reasoning behind that as well. Another good video for consideration...

Oh god! That vid is a bit much for me but I get the gist of it (kinda?) lol. I'd not thought about "zoning" before but I can see how my cold unused room is now like an added external wall in terms of heat loss?

That's one of the things he's simply wrong about.

But I am not prepared to spend the time and effort it would take to debunk his errors; I have better things to do.

 It doesn’t suit everyone but a heat pump for example would use more energy having 2 timed periods a day at 60c flow temp than low and slow all day. It’s no diff for mains gas boilers if you run them in the same way, you will save energy although gas is cheaper per unit of electricity so the savings are less substantial.

That is such a  sweeping generalisation to be meaningless; and demonstrates the problem with the video.

1. How long are the '2 timed periods a day at 60C?' 1 minute? 1 hour? 4 hours?

2. What temperature are you trying to achieve in the house?

3. and many other factors

As he says based on many other factors. Always worth considering though. Not everything is black and white. 

QED.

The message that will go out from the video, and your stout defence, is that heating on 24/7 is cheaper; and mostly it ain't!

richardc1983

If you are heating to 19c constantly then that can save instead of heating to 22 or 23c twice a day for say 6 hours a day and off in between. 

You are also more comfortable. We seem to go round and round in circles on this theory. I run my system this way and have tried both ways, its cheaper for me this way.  

Ultrasonic

richardc1983 said:

If you are heating to 19c constantly then that can save instead of heating to 22 or 23c twice a day for say 6 hours a day and off in between. 

You are also more comfortable. We seem to go round and round in circles on this theory. I run my system this way and have tried both ways, its cheaper for me this way.  

Are you at home during the day most of the time? Do you have your heating as high as 19°C at night? That's higher than I heat my lounge during the day!

richardc1983

Yeah I work from home so the house is occupied at 19c and then 18c when out or in bed as like a cool room at night. My rads never go above 35c if it’s cold outside usually they don’t even feel like they are on but the house is warm and comfortable. My gas usage was 1264kwh for the month of February. 

QrizB

richardc1983 said:

Yeah I work from home so the house is occupied at 19c and then 18c when out or in bed as like a cool room at night. My rads never go above 35c if it’s cold outside usually they don’t even feel like they are on but the house is warm and comfortable. My gas usage was 1264kwh for the month of February. 

That's interesting, thanks. I'm not at all sure that our houses are comparable!