New boiler help!

siross

keystone wrote: »

So you have a functioning boiler but poor showerperformance. You are being advised to change over to a mains pressure solutionto increase your shower performance but the mains pressure is too low toaccommodate a combi. So irerspective of spending £ Nk on a new boiler you mightnot actually achieve very much.

Time to step back and remove the trees out of your view of the wood.

Pump the shower! It will cost a great deal less than replacing the boilerand as you are doing the bathroom anyway theres no major disruption. Unless youplan to stand under the shower for hours then you won't empty the cylinderunless you have grandiose plans for one of those rainhead things which use aprodigious amount of water. Just make sure your CWST is sized appropriately.

Cheers

Basically yes, the boiler is functioning OK and the hotwater/heating seems OK. It’s just the shower which is pretty much non existent.



I’ve looked at various options including:


Electric Shower – Discounted this completely as their output is terrible andextra electricity cost plus electrical work to install is too much.

Power Shower (pumped) – Was second on my list but when Ilooked into the cost of things it was getting to around £800 fitted…

Combi Boiler – More efficient (by not storing hot water),better shower, new warranty. Albeit twice the price of a pumped shower.



My fear is that I go for a power shower and I my boilerbreaks down. I will be kicking myself! I have no idea how reliable it is. The onlything I can do is take out a guarantee on it and make sure it’s serviced whenit needs to be (mid December).



I am very new to all this and I would like to make aninformed decision, it seems to me like the combi just seems a better long terminvestment…



Thanks,


Simon

macman

It's crazy replacing an entire boiler just to increase the shower flow...what is the existing make and model?

twokcc

southcoastrgi wrote: »

& unless you can get around 20 ltrs/min then a combi isn't gonna work either

That doesn't tie in with my experience, got a valliant ecotec pro 28 combi gave excellent shower pressure. Had extension built and installed a unvented pressurised hot water cylinder-had to have water pressured measured before installing new syStem. Was 13l/minUte at first tap so in my expweriencecan get good shower pressure at les than 20l/minute

southcoastrgi

twokcc wrote: »

That doesn't tie in with my experience, got a valliant ecotec pro 28 combi gave excellent shower pressure. Had extension built and installed a unvented pressurised hot water cylinder-had to have water pressured measured before installing new syStem. Was 13l/minUte at first tap so in my expweriencecan get good shower pressure at les than 20l/minute

so you went from a combi giving you 11 ltrs/min max to a unvented cylinder capable of giving you around 37 ltrs/min with only a flow rate of 13 ltrs/min that was very MSE wasn't it, also if you only had 13 ltrs/min on your main incoming supply neither was the right choice.

OP what you have got to think about is hot water flow rate, atm you have stored hot water at 60d a combi's flow rate is measured by how much water flow you will get @ 35d rise so say you want your water at 45d & the incoming supply is 10d then you will get whatever the boiler says ie 24kw = approx 9 ltrs/min, however in the winter the incoming supply isn't far off of 0d so to still get the water at 45d you could have to turn the flow down to 3 or 4 ltrs/min, also by changing to a combi will mean all of your water hot & cold will be off of the incoming main & if you don't have enough flow then if you turn more than one tap on or flush the loo then the water flow will drop drastically which is why you need a good flow rate to start with, if there is nothing wrong with your system atm then fit a shower pump & IMO you could get one installed for less than £800

keystone

siross wrote: »

I’ve looked at various options including:

Electric Shower – Discounted this completely as their output is terrible andextra electricity cost plus electrical work to install is too much.

Power Shower (pumped) – Was second on my list but when Ilooked into the cost of things it was getting to around £800 fitted…

Combi Boiler – More efficient (by not storing hot water),better shower, new warranty. Albeit twice the price of a pumped shower.

Forget all three. Just pump the existing supplies with a separate pump (£ 150 upwards) locating pump either at base of HW cylinder or in roof or under the bath.

Cheers

unclebulgaria

I think the OP is getting a tad confused here.
You're trying to polish a turd basically, Your water pressure is poor so any electric shower you install or have installed will seem rubbish.
You are looking at installing a combination boiler but don't currently have a satisfactory water pressure to have one (why are you even considering the first installer who, by the sounds of things, didn't even bother to check your water pressure?).
Keystone is right, the pumped shower would be the better option, so long as your CWST and hot water cylinder are sized correctly you would be quids in. £800 for a water pump install (pump and labour seems a bit excessive IMO) have a look for a pump that will manage the whole house. Stuart Turner pumps are excellent in my experience.
Your low pressure could be caused by something as simple as a half open stop tap or a faulty boundary tap. If its sorted easily then a combi is an option but I'm not sure you're going to be that happy with it if you think it will give you Niagra falls.

siross

Thanks for all the advice guys, I really do appreciate it. I am getting very confused with it all, a lot of people believe one thing is the best option and it is very difficult to see the wood from the trees, trying to take in so much information around something I am very, very new to.

I think the best thing to do would be to wait until United Utilities come round and see what the problem is and how easily rectified.

I've a couple of questions regarding the pump option if that's OK?

1) I assume a pump literally just takes the existing system and puts a rocket up it giving much better pressure through the shower which can be any mixer tap with a shower attachment?
2) What's the difference between this and a power shower such as Aqualisa showers?
3) How less efficient is storing hot water rather than using a combi and heating it when you want? This is the only efficiency I'm told I'll receive.
4) What trades are required to fit a pump? Does it need an electrician or just a plumber? And if it requires an electrician does it need a dedicated supply to the RCD like an electric shower or can it be run off the main ring?

Thanks again for all your help guys!

Simon

keystone

siross wrote: »

1) I assume a pump literally just takes the existing system and puts a rocket up it giving much better pressure through the shower which can be any mixer tap with a shower attachment?

Putting a rocket up it is an interesting expression and is worth preserving for posterity. But yes I guess essentially that is a very good description.

2) What's the difference between this and a power shower such as Aqualisa showers?

You can use an external pump with your existing arrangement. With a power shower the pump is in the unit in the shower with you (got some earplugs? ). An external pump is a more elegant (in all senses of the word) solution.

3) How less efficient is storing hot water rather than using a combi and heating it when you want? This is the only efficiency I'm told I'll receive.

My own view - which others will, no doubt, disagree with is that combis are only suitable for flats and small houses. When you say efficienbt do you means efficiency of use or efficiency of production?

4) What trades are required to fit a pump? Does it need an electrician or just a plumber?

I'd say a plumber with some electrical savvy. There will be some piping alterations so that you give the pump separate feeds from all other drawoffs.

And if it requires an electrician does it need a dedicated supply to the RCD like an electric shower

No run it off whatever you like via a fused spur.

Cheers

twokcc

southcoastrgi wrote: »

so you went from a combi giving you 11 ltrs/min max to a unvented cylinder capable of giving you around 37 ltrs/min with only a flow rate of 13 ltrs/min that was very MSE wasn't it, also if you only had 13 ltrs/min on your main incoming supply neither was the right choice.

The valliant was installed was already installed whenI bought the property. The reason i had the flow test was test was to establish if flow rate was adequate for pressurised system. As you state it wasn't but with 50l/minute at meter replacing lead pipe gave more than adequate flow rate for new hot water cylinder system, but poster wasn't asking about this. Got 5 or 6 quotes most recommended a bigger combi(although got bathroom with shower and 2 en-suites) without even asking about flow rate. So plenty of bad advise, but believe I've finished with good system to do job. As said can only speak from my experience with the pressure from the shower before new supply pipe was installed but my experience is that recommendations made which aren't in best interest of customer.

southcoastrgi

very true there are far too many trades that don't take into account the needs of the customer & just fit what is easiest or makes them the most money, unfortunately alot of the newer guys only know combi's & think they are the solution for everything, which of course they aren't