How does ESA transfer to JSA - does it need a new claim?

tygr

I'll try to make this brief.

I made a new claim for JSA on Monday, after being made redundant from my part-time job. After a bout of anxiety and depression and nearly six months off sick in 2010, I've never worked full-time and doubt that I'd cope with it. I have, however, managed to work part time for the last 15 months and am looking for part-time work now.

The last few weeks have been incredibly stressful and I burst into tears at my first appointment at the job centre. I explained about my past history (as outlined above) to the adviser and she said that I could apply for ESA instead of JSA, updated the system and gave me the form.

I've since read about what ESA is and I doubt I'd get any points at a medical. I've made the earliest available appointment with my GP - next Friday - and I'll discuss it with him but I have two concerns:

1. At what point and who decides whether I qualify for ESA or JSA? Is a doctor's note sufficient initially? The adviser said it would be.

2. If I transfer from ESA to JSA, does this count as a new claim or a change in the existing one?

This last point is important as my NI contributions will only be high enough in 2009-10 and 2010-11 for a contributions based benefit. I was previously told that they will start using 2011-12 tax year in early December. I am worried that I might start a claim for ESA, very quickly have to transfer over to JSA and lo and behold, don't qualify for JSA due to a lack of contributions.

I'm wondering whether i might be better off sticking with the JSA claim. It is definitely causing me high anxiety but being without any money would be a lot worse. I do intend to job seek - just not for 40 hour a week positions.

Any advice would be appreciated.

benefitbaby

Hi there, a claim for ESA would be a new claim based on the NI/tax years 2010/11 and 2009/10.
You could instead to seek to vary your JSA agreement and restict it so you are able to lofor part-time work etc. See here... http://www.cpag.org.uk/content/labour-market-conditions-and-jobseeker%E2%80%99s-allowance

tygr

Thanks Benefitbaby

I wonder if that might have been a better option to explore rather than giving me the ESA form. I was very upset and obviously jumped at it until I actually thought about the implications. I have been getting very anxious about job-seeking and meeting the JCP's requirements and it hasn't been helping.

Do you know anything about how ESA ends and transferring from one benefit to another? And when ESA ends? Is a doctor's note sufficient for the whole 13 week assessment period? Obviously I would hope to find a job in that time but there's no guarantee. If I have to start a new claim for JSA when ESA ends then by then they'll be looking at different tax years and I won't get anything.

benefitbaby

The first thing to do is establish if your JSA claim has actually been closed - could you resurrect this?
If it has been closed and an ESA claim made, then you will need to send the sick notes (Med3) to JCP and this will cover you until you either get a job or have your ESA work-capability assessment. Bear in mind that many areas of the UK are seeing long delays for the WCA so it could be longer than 13 weeks and if you were to fail the assessment you have a right to appeal (which will enable payment to continue).

If/when the ESA claim ends you would then have to make a new claim for JSA and if this is in January or later then JCP will calculate your entitlement based on 2010/11 and 2011/12 tax years.

benefitbaby

tygr wrote: »

I wonder if that might have been a better option to explore rather than giving me the ESA form.

If you feel that you were ill advised (or not really advised at all!) you could consider making a complaint - especially if it appears you would not qualify for ESA and then be out of NI conts for JSA and this was not considered or explored at all by the JCP worker.

This would be considered a loss of statutory entitlement and they could pay compensation (special payment).

tygr

Hmm.

I'll have to ring the DWP on Monday.

It seems then that it's a choice between claiming ESA but risking that I'll lose it earlier than I could have stayed on JSA or starting off with JSA and dealing with the stress that brings but at least knowing I have 6 months to get myself sorted. I just can't see me getting any points at a medical and quite rightly so. I can work - just not full-time and not in something that I'll find stressful.

My appointment was only yesterday and I haven't sent the ESA form off yet. I'm not sure what she typed on the computer but we didn't get as far as creating a job seeker's agreement. I did sign something but can't remember what it was - I think it was just to say that my JSA claim form was all honest and true.

To be fair to her, I didn't tell her that I hadn't made any NI contributions since being made redundant in January 2011 but then again she didn't ask!

tygr

Just to explain although it isn't relevant really, a lot of my past emotional problems have manifested at work and so I have a big fear about it - I'd almost say a phobia. It goes back over 10 years.

I'm highly qualified: Oxbridge, masters, professional and post grad qualifications and have worked since 1998 but just don't perform well, get emotional and stressed and twice it's led to disciplinary proceedings. It's frustrating. But it also explains why job-seeking is making me anxious and I want to find something that I can perform well in and not get overwhelmed by. ESA does seem more attractive but it might not be the right option.

benefitbaby

When an ESA claimant is assessed under the work-capability assessment and does not score 15 points from the descriptors then the Atos healthcare professional and JCP decision maker must then consider whether you meet any of the exceptional circumstances (regulation 29 of the ESA regulations) it is possible that you could argue/show that 26(2)(b) applies to you; http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2008/794/regulation/29/made

Basically case law has established that this would apply if work would significantly exacerbate your health condition (which from what you say it sounds probable). The decision maker and later a tribunal - if it got that far - would be bound by Charlton -v- SSWP;
www.dwp.gov.uk/commdecs/09_10/ib_209.pdf

Hope this helps and I urge you to seek the advice of a welfare rights advice service (CAB etc).

jobseeking_help

Tygr

Basically JSA is for people who are fit to take up employment, ESA is for people not fit to take up employment.

If you are eligible for JSA then you will be eligible for ESA. As far as I am aware if you have completed your entitlement to ESA C or are not entitled to ESA C then you can apply for ESA IB in exactly the same way as JSA.

It is initally you who makes the decsion whether you are or are not fit. Being on ESA simply removes the requirement to be actively seeking employment. However you can still apply for jobs and will have to close the claim for ESA if you start a job that is 16 or more hours p/w or declare your earnings if working fewer than 16 hours p/w.

If you are on JSA then transferring to ESA is commencing another benefit. There is an 0800 tel no to call ( cannot remember the exact last 2 digits ( I think it's either 0800 0 55 66 77 or 88 at the end. presumably you can also go to gov.uk and claim on line ) and this then starts the claim for ESA. Call takes 45 - 50 mins as with claim for JSA there are all sorts of questions to answer. As with JSA you then have to confirm the details you gave. The BDC will post the details to you then you confirm / amend and return. At this point you will need to be 'signed off ' for more then 2 weeks by a GP on a formal fit note. It has to be more than 2 weeks otherwise you stay on JSA as you can be off sick for 2 weeks on JSA. Also make sure GP is using formal fit note and has completed it correctly and if possible that it is legible ( not easy with GPs )
Include a copy of the fit note in the returned claim to BDC. Never send originals as the BDC lose most things.

I would suggest that you phone go / online to commence the claim for ESA the day after you have signed on. Try and get date of fit note to tie in with same date. This gives the BDC 2 weeks to transfer claim from JSA to ESA before you are due another payment. I believe payment for ESA is the same amount as JSA, processed as JSA and sent out on your 'signing day as JSA . ( your signing day for ESA / JSA is dictated by the last 3 digits of your NI number ). However can take 3-4 weeks to transfer claim from JSA to ESA and vice-versa because BDC are useless.

After a couple of months ( not sure on exact timescales ) you will be booked appt with Jobcentre to offer any support.

Around 13 weeks I think you will have ATOS appt ( and they don;t give ATOS ). Almost certainly unless you give convincing performance of utter insanity you will be back on JSA.

If you decide to stay on JSA as Benefit Baby suggests if you have a reasonable adviser try and get JSAg amended so that requirements are not so onerous in terms of jobseeking and in terms of how many hours you are available to work each week.

tygr

Thank you BB. Yes, that section might apply to me. I guess the best outcome, whichever benefit I go on, would be to get a job quickly and not have to come up against a decision maker or have the benefit run out! I had an interview last week, to co-ordinate a mental health project for three days a week, but didn't get the job sadly.

I'm also considering a PhD - put off re-entering the workplace for another three years, and of course hopefully advance human knowledge and science.

I'll find out where my nearest CAB is and try to get an appointment this week.

Jobseekinghelp - thanks too. It's tricky because I am fit to work but then I get overwhelmingly stressed and cry at the drop of a hat as was happening all last week and clearly wouldn't be any good at work - or in an interview, perish the thought. But I think it is the job seeking that is stressing me and will hopefully go away when I have a job.

I spent most of my session with my therapist last week worrying about the job seeker's agreement. Removing it or getting it amended would take so much pressure off. Clearly I don't want to be on benefits so either way I'll be looking.

I wish I'd had the presence of mind to discuss this all with the adviser yesterday and we could have got it sorted there and then.

benefitbaby

I do hope you find the resolution that is best for you and in the meantime keep talking to your therapsit and maybe see if you can engage an advocate (Mind have them in my area) to support you.