How does ESA transfer to JSA - does it need a new claim?

rogerblack

jobseeking_help wrote: »

It is initally you who makes the decsion whether you are or are not fit. Being on ESA simply removes the requirement to be actively seeking employment. However you can still apply for jobs and will have to close the claim for ESA if you start a job that is 16 or more hours p/w or declare your earnings if working fewer than 16 hours p/w.

This is somewhat misleading.
In principle, on ESA, you can do permitted work (at minimum wage) for 16 hours a day.

However, you need to arrange this first, and confirm that it will be permitted work.
If you do not, then in addition to it reducing your ESA pound for pound (permitted work does not reduce your ESA), you risk having the work you are doing be able to be considered a reason you are fit for work.

Being on ESA (in the work related group) means you may, if it is considered 'reasonable' have to face similar measures to those on JSA, with the exception of actually applying for work, or doing normal paid work.
(Those in the support group do not have to participate).

tygr

Does anyone know what date DWP change the tax years they look at? I spoke to someone at the job centre a month ago and she said that it was around 5th December? If that's the case, I will reinstate my JSA claim straight away. If it's January, I might claim ESA for a short period to restabilise after this latest blip and then make a new JSA claim.

Thanks

supertomsk

It's the first Sunday in January

epitome

They don't change until January 2013. Could be the first Sunday (I don't know).

When you claim ESA C (we will assume for whatever reason you are not eligible for ESA IR - because you have hinted you are only interested in ESA C) you need sick notes for the whole time until you are assessed. after assessment if you fail you are allowed to appeal (with continuous sick notes) and will be paid on appeal -at the same rate- until the 365th day of your claim.

So you only get 180 days on JSA C
Potentially 365 days on ESA C with sick notes.

The sick notes can either say "patient is unable to work" or they can say "patient has limited capacity for work". Which means AFAIK you and your doctor agree you can do some work but can't do some types of work. (perhaps Roger or Muttley can confirm this?)

As long as you think your doctor will be willing to give you sick notes for a year, you should claim ESA.

Some pitfalls to look out for,
After they fail you on the assessment, they send a letter to your doctor saying, "patient has been found fit for work and you(dr) do not need to supply sick notes anymore" A lot of Doctors (stupid Doctors) take this as a legal requirement that they MUST NOT supply any more sicknotes. The Doctors do not realise that they are not bound by the whims of the DWP. Or if your Dr decides in thier own mind not to supply sick notes anymore, and you change doctors, the new doctor will not backdate a sicknote to the expiry of the last so you will not get ESA for the period not covered by sicknotes.....AND the DWP may choose to suspend your payments entirely if there is a gap in the sicknotes....so you would get nothing further until you either pass an assessment or win an appeal.

When you swap from ESA to JSA it does mean a new claim for JSA (although it is sometimes a shorter claim form but this cannot be gauranteed). If you swap over in 2013, there is a rule that if you make a new claim within 12 weeks of a previous claim they will use the same tax years (i.e. 9/10 & 10/11).... But this would be a different benefit (JSA). I don't know if the tax year linking rule would apply if it is for a different benefit. But if it does, you would then possibly get JSA for 180 days on the same tax years.

MEsteve

Im sorry to hear you are struggling with anxiety and depression - its not much fun. It sounds like you are stuck somewhere in the middle between JSA and ESA. I have had CFS which has been very debilitating for several years now and recently got chucked off ESA and declared fit for work which is a joke considering most days at the moment I can barely leave the house.
You could apply for ESA but you would have to think about where you might score points in the WCA because you need 15 points to qualify.

Theoretically it sounds like you do have 'limited capability' to work, and might be suitable for a work related activity group. I think it would be sensible to put you into this group whilst you figure out what might help you. Its just a question of if they let you qualify. I could be wrong, but Im a bit concerned with you dragging yourself through the process and not getting any success. I think it could be an idea for you to get hold of one of the ESA50 forms and seeing where you might score points in the mental assessment and if you might score the 15 required.

Im wondering if there might be a line of work you could try that caters to your situation - like work that is sympathetic to your condition. Perhaps low stress work you could do from home or a low stress environment? I say this sympathetically not to try to be a hard !!!. Take it from someone who knows - that being off work completely and doing nothing does not alleviate symptoms of anxiety and depression. In my experience finding a solution that works for you is the best option...

tygr

It's frustrating as I can be perfectly fine (ish) for long periods but I just react emotionally to things sometimes, get stressed easily and have insomnia which leads to a vicious circle. I worked full-time for 13 years and maybe I could again but I don't want to risk my health. When things get really bad, they get really bad and I'd prefer to not get to that state again. I hope to be able to contribute more than a 9 hour a week admin job though, which is what I was doing until I was made redundant. 3 days a week is really the limit I'm looking at for now. I'd prefer this to be something commensurate with my experience and qualifications but I suppose beggars can't be choosers.

I'm not entitled to income related benefits as I have a house so am over the assets threshold.

I'm trying to get through to the job centre to check the tax year date change but it's engaged. I'm torn between reinstating the JSA claim immediately and starting with a short ESA before switching to JSA before the new year. Obviously I need to see what my GP says on Friday. I've been backwards and forwards since July to get sleeping pills for my insomnia so he does at least have evidence that I've been struggling recently.

tygr

Is it the actual job centre I need to speak to or is there a central office I can ring for advice. First operator said the job centre but it's always engaged when they try to connect me. There's a benefit centre that deals with claims from my area. Can I ring them? I just want this sorted today so I can stop worrying about it.

Edited:

It's ok - rang the Benefit Centre. She's getting the Processing Centre (?) to call me back as she isn't sure.

Edited again: I was also told my JSA claim is now marked "defective" so I suppose that means that I can't reinstate it and I've lost a week? I didn't ask that.

pmlindyloo

tygr wrote: »

It's frustrating as I can be perfectly fine (ish) for long periods but I just react emotionally to things sometimes, get stressed easily and have insomnia which leads to a vicious circle. I worked full-time for 13 years and maybe I could again but I don't want to risk my health. When things get really bad, they get really bad and I'd prefer to not get to that state again. I hope to be able to contribute more than a 9 hour a week admin job though, which is what I was doing until I was made redundant. 3 days a week is really the limit I'm looking at for now. I'd prefer this to be something commensurate with my experience and qualifications but I suppose beggars can't be choosers.

I'm not entitled to income related benefits as I have a house so am over the assets threshold.

I'm trying to get through to the job centre to check the tax year date change but it's engaged. I'm torn between reinstating the JSA claim immediately and starting with a short ESA before switching to JSA before the new year. Obviously I need to see what my GP says on Friday. I've been backwards and forwards since July to get sleeping pills for my insomnia so he does at least have evidence that I've been struggling recently.

Just checking You do mean you have a second house rather than the house you live in?

tygr

Yes

I used to live in a big city but after the last bout of depression, just couldn't cope with it anymore so moved out to the country and I have tenants in my old house. I still need additional income though as rent on its own isn't enough to support me.

tygr

A very nice lady just rang me back and we've decided to put the ESA form in. I definitely qualify for benefits based on my contributions at the moment she says (phew) and the tax years swap over in January, as has been said above (so where my local job centre got 5th December from I don't know!).

I don't intend this to be a long-term claim so if my GP can sign me off for a month, that gives me a few weeks to get my head together then start the JSA claim before Christmas.

I'm also looking for PhD places so I'll contact some universities later and see whether there's any chance of finding a place (unlikely) for a January start.

Phew.