Bayonet fitting LED bulbs?

sunshinetours

elstimpo wrote: »

I wouldn't buy Osram or Phillips LED products. Been in the LED Lighting industry for over 12 years now and if you go to a specialist retailer of LED Lighting products you'll get a better product.

Like what though - specifics recommendations preferred and why not Osram or Philips - are the products poor or just too expensive as "big name" products

elstimpo

sunshinetours wrote: »

Like what though - specifics recommendations preferred and why not Osram or Philips - are the products poor or just too expensive as "big name" products

I own an online LED lighting Store so it's very difficult for me to recommend specific products, as naturally i recommend my products.

When it comes to massive companies such as Phillips + Osram, they have huge overheads to cover and then profit to make. The products the sell have to be able to be marked up massively and remain competitive in the market place. This makes it difficult for them to be able to match the quality of small independent retailers who don't have these overheads to match. They also can't adapt very quickly to evolving technology. They buy in such high volumes that they must shift them all before moving onto to something new. A small retailer can hold stock of 50 of each product or a couple of hundred so when a new product comes out, then can get it into stock immediately.

I know the companies and have been in the factories that all the major brands use to manufacture their products. It's no great secret, anyone who works in the industry for a decent period of time will also know.

As they go Phillips products are pretty decent, much better than Osrams - although Osram have just done a deal with a new supplier for all their products that is a very good supplier. If you want to play it safe, then Phillips is currently the one to go for, but if you do your research and compare products are some smaller, specialist LED Lighting companies, you'll find much better products.

Product won't replace what it claims
The make sure you get a trial period when you buy a product so that if it doesn't suit your needs you can get your money back.

Product won't last as long as it claims
Look at the length of warranty. 1 is pretty pathetic, 2 is standard and not great, 3 is good and anything over 3 is great. Warranty is an indication of the companies faith in the quality of their product. Also buy from a proper company, not an ebay seller in China and don't get me started on price manipulation and scams on Groupon.

Pick up the phone and speak to the company about their products. Look for information on their website where they are working hard to prove their products quality and prove they deliver what they claim to.

sunshinetours

elstimpo wrote: »

I own an online LED lighting Store so it's very difficult for me to recommend specific products, as naturally i recommend my products.

When it comes to massive companies such as Phillips + Osram, they have huge overheads to cover and then profit to make. The products the sell have to be able to be marked up massively and remain competitive in the market place. This makes it difficult for them to be able to match the quality of small independent retailers who don't have these overheads to match. They also can't adapt very quickly to evolving technology. They buy in such high volumes that they must shift them all before moving onto to something new. A small retailer can hold stock of 50 of each product or a couple of hundred so when a new product comes out, then can get it into stock immediately.

I know the companies and have been in the factories that all the major brands use to manufacture their products. It's no great secret, anyone who works in the industry for a decent period of time will also know.

As they go Phillips products are pretty decent, much better than Osrams - although Osram have just done a deal with a new supplier for all their products that is a very good supplier. If you want to play it safe, then Phillips is currently the one to go for, but if you do your research and compare products are some smaller, specialist LED Lighting companies, you'll find much better products.

Product won't replace what it claims
The make sure you get a trial period when you buy a product so that if it doesn't suit your needs you can get your money back.

Product won't last as long as it claims
Look at the length of warranty. 1 is pretty pathetic, 2 is standard and not great, 3 is good and anything over 3 is great. Warranty is an indication of the companies faith in the quality of their product. Also buy from a proper company, not an ebay seller in China and don't get me started on price manipulation and scams on Groupon.

Pick up the phone and speak to the company about their products. Look for information on their website where they are working hard to prove their products quality and prove they deliver what they claim to.

Thanks - problem is like many i just want to go and buy a bulb like I used to = not research the world of LED technology!

What sort of price would you say I should be looking at for a decent quality 60W equivalent dimmable traditional style bulb in warm white? Prices on Amazon for instance seem to be between £8 and £30+

maninthestreet

Many LED bulbs are just not dimmable, so you maybe on a fruitless journey.

Ben84

Jonesya wrote: »

Good quality LED bulb but not cheap (the orange bits actually glow white):
http://www.energybulbs.co.uk/products/LED+Light+Bulbs/Dimmable+LED+Bulbs/Dimmable+LED+GLS+Bulbs/Philips+12W+Master+Glow+GLS+LED+Bulb+-+Warm+White+%28BC%2FB22%29/3484825163

I have some of these bulbs and I'm very happy with them. The light output is what I'd expect from a 60w frosted bulb, in brightness and in how well it's distributed, as well as colour. They also dim smoothly and turn on instantly.

However, while they are my favorite energy saver bulbs, they are expensive so I only use them for lamps that are used often.

WestonDave

One issue I've come across with dimmable LED's is the dimmers sometimes can't cope with the low power consumption! Swapped 5x28W halogen candles in a candelabra for 5 x4W dimmable LED candle shaped bulbs. Happy enough with the light levels but noticed a bit of flickering when on full power (like odd flick every couple of minutes). Turned them down on the dimmer which worked fine, but then they started dancing on and off like a disco! Did a bit of quick digging on the net and discovered that dimmers in some cases won't cope with very low power use and hunt on and off - which is what was happening with mine. Put a 28W bulb back in with the remaining 4 LED's - problem solved. So I now have to find a new dimmer switch that will cope with the low power (recommendations welcome). To be fair it needed changing anyway as the twist cover had split and keeps coming off.!

sunshinetours

Thanks that does help more - will aim for a 7W with 3 year warranty and give it a go. Payback in theory is under a year on the lounge at those sort of prices

elstimpo

WestonDave wrote: »

One issue I've come across with dimmable LED's is the dimmers sometimes can't cope with the low power consumption! Swapped 5x28W halogen candles in a candelabra for 5 x4W dimmable LED candle shaped bulbs. Happy enough with the light levels but noticed a bit of flickering when on full power (like odd flick every couple of minutes). Turned them down on the dimmer which worked fine, but then they started dancing on and off like a disco! Did a bit of quick digging on the net and discovered that dimmers in some cases won't cope with very low power use and hunt on and off - which is what was happening with mine. Put a 28W bulb back in with the remaining 4 LED's - problem solved. So I now have to find a new dimmer switch that will cope with the low power (recommendations welcome). To be fair it needed changing anyway as the twist cover had split and keeps coming off.!

Yeah this is true, our existing circuitry in homes and offices is not set up for low energy products. One of our clients had 50 x 50w Halogens in his kitchen/dinning room. Thats one circuit with a total 2500w that he wanted to change to 350 watts. I explained that this was highly unlikely to be a case where we can simply swap like for like. So we had to change the entire circuit.

This is a problem that we face with GU10 vs MR16 spots. GU10 LED Spot contain a transformer within the product that can help deal with a heavy current. An MR16 does not have this transformer, so quite often, when we have customers replacing 50w Halogens with 7w MR16 Spots, the LED's won't work. They will simple flash on or off, because the current is far too much for them and they have no way of dealing with it. We actually put the below on our website due to this problem.

Replacing low voltage GX5.3 20, 35, 50w halogen lamps with LED lamps

When replacing low voltage (12v) halogen lamps with low power, high efficiency LED units please be aware of the following possible issues.

NO work should be carried out on live electrical circuits, ensure power is turned off correctly.

The existing tungsten halogen lamps will have a companion small transformer, possibly in the ceiling space above the lamp. The purpose of the transformer is to reduce the 240v mains voltage to a lower voltage of 12 volts suitable for the lamp. Please note though that installation methods vary and one transformer may feed individual or multiple lamps.

The transformer intended for the halogen lamp may have a minimum load requirement and replacing your lamps with the very low power LED units may cause the transformer to operate incorrectly due to the extremely low power requirement of the LED units in comparison with the original halogen lamp(s).

Whilst this will not immediately be a cause for concern or damage the transformer or LED lamps you should not continue to use the combination of low power LED lamps and existing transformer but should seek advice from our technical department.

Failure to operate correctly is typically indicated by the LED lamps ashing on and off or just illuminating only at switch on and then extinguishing. You may also hear an accompanying high pitched noise.

If you experience these issues or are in any doubt, do NOT continue to operate the lamps/transformers in this state but switch o and replace the LED lamps with the original tungsten halogen units and contact our technical department for advice.

Note that standard replacement low power LED replacement units are NOT intended for use with dimmer units and should not be used with them.

So dimmers really is a very similar issue. The only way you are going to know if you can retrofit an LED product is by trial and error or getting your circuit changed.

Trying to find out exactly which existing and traditional dimmers will work with LED products is like finding a needle in a haystack.

Ben84

WestonDave wrote: »

One issue I've come across with dimmable LED's is the dimmers sometimes can't cope with the low power consumption! Swapped 5x28W halogen candles in a candelabra for 5 x4W dimmable LED candle shaped bulbs. Happy enough with the light levels but noticed a bit of flickering when on full power (like odd flick every couple of minutes). Turned them down on the dimmer which worked fine, but then they started dancing on and off like a disco! Did a bit of quick digging on the net and discovered that dimmers in some cases won't cope with very low power use and hunt on and off - which is what was happening with mine. Put a 28W bulb back in with the remaining 4 LED's - problem solved. So I now have to find a new dimmer switch that will cope with the low power (recommendations welcome). To be fair it needed changing anyway as the twist cover had split and keeps coming off.!

Sometimes they work, sometimes not. I'm currently using these bridge brand dimmers (http://www.amazon.co.uk/4-BRIDGE-W-standard-Inline-dimmer-switch/dp/B003BVKRSK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1355002299&sr=8-1) on various lamps with the philips master bulbs and despite suggesting a minimum 60w load, they work fine.

sunshinetours

OK thanks Elstimpo have now received and tried the 7W dimmable you mentioned and am suitably impressed. They are whiter light than the traditional bulbs but not an unpleasant light at all and dims well and decent light distribution (two in the room on a single dimmer). Best of all it just looks like a frosted bulb from below so can be used in open fittings unlike the yellow coloured ones.

Big difference in all of these types I guess is the downward light projection rather than up as aswell which I guess helps make the bulb seem brighter than it is as light isn't being wasted lighting the ceiling

It certainly lights the whole room better than the 42W halogens or the 60W incandescants (sp?) its previously replaced which suprised me

Test will be how it performs in long run but with 3 year warranty
should be fine I guess. Not cheap at £12.50 a bulb but compared to others priced about right i guess if it performs