Parking Penalty Appeal Information

JEG1965

My apologies Meletus.

Golden_Oldie

JEG1965 wrote: »

I clearly haven't explained the circumstances adequately. I also parked legally and returned within the period I had paid for.

No you didn't. The time for return is shown on your ticket. End of.

I suppose you could dispute that the clock on the metre is running 2 minutes faster than your watch or alternatively you could have left a note for the warden on your dashboard stating that the clock is 2 minutes fast"

JEG1965

Goodness me I thought this was a forum designed to promote consumer rights!?

OK, below I've provided the paragraph from the learned authors quoted above. The first three sentences identify much more clearly than I can the point which might be of HELP to consumers regarding the parking issue.

If you do not wish to utilise this approach to appeal an unfair penalty you do not have to. I can't guarantee that it will work but it certainly helped me.

The later sentences illustrate the broader importance of contract analysis which may outwardly appear trivial but have enormous consumer importance. N.B. the law may have been altered by Electronic Commerce regulations. If someone could give some helpful guidance as to that I would be most grateful. That would, perhaps, afford a more constructive consideration of a point which might bolster consumer protection against a clear illegality.

For those who are suggesting that this is a daft opinion I would simply suggest that you ask yourselves would you happily walk away from a shopping till short-changed or mind if your petrol pump only fed petrol after you'd been charged £2 for nothing? The principle IS the same.

Anyway here's the quote, remember the point is that, on this analysis, there is NO CONTRACT formed between consumer and local authority prior to the contract being concluded by your agreement. Therefore any subsequent penalty is subject to appeal as you have been penalised unfairly. I believe this may be the case even if you are significantly late but is almost certainly the case if you are only a minute or two late.

Here's the passage referred to:

'An automatic vending machine could be considered as either a standing invitation to treat or a standing offer. If the former, the potential customer makes an offer by inserting the money, which is accepted if the machine retains the money; if, however, the money is rejected, no contract is formed. If the latter, inserting the money constitutes an acceptance and a contract is then formed: if the money is rejected, there would be a breach of contract. While there is no Scottish authority on the point, in England it has been held that the proprietors of an automatic car park made a standing offer which was accepted as soon as a driver had driven to a point where he could not return (Thorntree v Shoe Lane Parking [1971] 2 QB 163). Since a contract was formed at this stage, the driver could not be bound by any purported terms in the ticket which was issued by an automatic machine situated beyond the point of no return! It remains to be seen whether this approach would be followed in Scotland: if it were, then, by analogy, a vending machine would be regarded as a standing offer. A similar example of growing importance in the new age of electronic commerce is the Internet web page indicating the availability of goods for sale and enabling the customer to order direct from a supplier by an electronically transmitted communication. Is the web page an invitation to treat, or is it a standing offer, with the customer's transmission of her desire to buy together with her credit card or electronic cash details constituting an acceptance and concluding the contract? Again the significance of the choice concerns whether or not the supplier has the right to decline the customer's business.' (MacQueen & Thomson, Contract Law in Scotland, 2000 para.2.15).

tylerboyo

Under some law, unless the ticket is attatched to your car, you cant be prosecuted. I have drove off from many traffic wardens, as they were writing me tickets, or about to write me tickets. Have i ever had a letter through demanding payment? Nope. The main reason was parking on double yellows. Now, i wouldt park on double yellows in the city, walk off shopping for 2hrs, and then come back. This was when i go skating round the city, and drive round to each place. I keep an eye on my car, and we then drive off when we see a warden.
Also, under another legality(council traffic wardens, not private.)
They can't ticket you if you are fully parked on grass.
Another fine 1 I have seen a few people use, is getting a number plate made, and covering it over your existing one, therefore not getting a reminder. Although i havent done that, and never would.

Bamber19

Golden_Oldie wrote: »

No you didn't. The time for return is shown on your ticket. End of.

I suppose you could dispute that the clock on the metre is running 2 minutes faster than your watch or alternatively you could have left a note for the warden on your dashboard stating that the clock is 2 minutes fast"

The time to return is stated on the ticket, Yes but you enter into a contract for a set time, if you pay for an hour you are entitled to an hour, not 58 minutes becausethe machine starts counting from the first coin. To put out a hypothetical situation, you pay to park for 2 hours but the time to come back comes out as only 1 hour, would you still find it fair to get a ticket after an hour and 20 minutes having paid for 2 hours parking? I know there is a vast idfference in time between an hour and 2 minutes but in terms of compliance with the terms of the contract your entering into, neither situations would satisfy.

mpython

I have to admire the ingenuity of the arguement put forward by OP but I do wonder whether it would stand up in court. For instance, how long does it take from parking the car to putting in 40 x 5p coins to buy £2 of parking? Is that time part of the purchased parking time as well, after all the car is parked while you do that? Also, I'm not sure if I'd be too happy if there were 2 people in front of me putting in 5p after 5p. That, no doubt would eat into my parking time as well.

MarkyMarkD

JEG1965

Your argument about not getting the full time is complete rubbish.

With any pay and display car park, you park the car, and THEN you go and pay. So EVERY customer gets an amount of free time which they don't pay for.

If you are stupid, and choose to pay your £4 parking charge in 5p coins, so it take you five minutes to put them all in, that doesn't make any difference to the amount of parking time you get - you are ALREADY PARKED.

If the time started from the time the ticket is printed, you would get 5 minutes more FREE TIME but just because it starts when you start inserting coins doesn't make it unfair in the slightest.

mpython

Sorry to be dense MarkyMarkD, who are you aiming #18 at?

MarkyMarkD

The OP, of course - not you at all mpython. I was actually agreeing with you. Sorry for not being clearer - and I've amended #18 to clarify.

Golden_Oldie

MarkyMarkD wrote: »

JEG1965

Your argument about not getting the full time is complete rubbish.

With any pay and display car park, you park the car, and THEN you go and pay. So EVERY customer gets an amount of free time which they don't pay for.

My sentiments to. :T
Dealing with vending machines is no different to dealing with a person so therefore result in an immediate contract.