Tony Benn slams BBC on air for "capitulating to Israeli pressure"

The_White_Horse

i'm not a big fan. i just think they have a right to self defence. i think they are held to a higher level of account than the rest of the world. i think a lot of people don't know the facts, or even half the facts and get too caught up in the bbc's "dead baby" line of reporting. "poor palestinians, throwing pebbles at the nasty israelis. they simply threw a pebble at a tank and the viscious satan like israel respond by sending in the F16's to kill loads of babies at the baby milk factory".

it gets on my nerves.

the israelis are not having stones or primitive rocks thrown at them, they are under constant fire from rockets and missiles, that kill and maim. what's more, they are just fired randomly at civilians, not at military targets.

they have a right to stop that and duty to protect their citizens. hamas are not some underground group disobeying the govt - they are the govt. therefore, the gaza strip is legitimate. the fact that hamas hide their bombs. missiles etc in schools, hospitals and the like just shows what they really are.

as for israeli politics - i couldn't care less.

CLAPTON

dryhat wrote: »

But throughout history and to this day, the muslim world has generally been very accomodating towards jews. You can go to any middle-eastern country today and find a thriving jewish community which has peacefully existed there for centuries.

off topic really, but do you have any references for this as my general reading seems to show that there has been a massive reduction in the non-muslim population of the middle east since the ww2

ILW

I have to say, that history suggests that European Christians and Catholics appear to have been the real enemies of judaism throughout the centuries. Only since the post war set up of modern Israel have the Arabs really got in on the act.

PaulF81

dryhat wrote: »

This is incorrect. For a start, not all palestinians are muslims.

But throughout history and to this day, the muslim world has generally been very accomodating towards jews. You can go to any middle-eastern country today and find a thriving jewish community which has peacefully existed there for centuries.

The same was true of palestine before it was literally wiped off the map by one group of people to give to another people (who originally considered moving to a plot of land in africa).

This conflict really is about land. But also about justice and morality.

You cannot underestimate how much resentment and hatred this topic stirs up amongst muslim people. And it is one of the main drivers for turning moderate muslims into fanatics looking for revenge.

The sooner this festering boil is lanced the better for all of us.

Listen, I have spent most of my working life in this part of the world and I am telling you, its sectarian pure and simple. Yes, there is a diverse mix of people in palestine as there is in israel, however, the underlying hatred is divvied on grounds of arab vs jew.

I am well aware of the peace that existed between the two for centuries, (excluding the initial crusade of Mohammed which captured much of constantinoples christian land). I am sure it hasnt been improved by 2 wars in the past century that saw more land captured by the israelis whilst they defended themselves from Arab attack.

I have to say, that history suggests that European Christians and Catholics appear to have been the real enemies of judaism throughout the centuries. Only since the post war set up of modern Israel have the Arabs really got in on the a

all religion is a pestilence on technological progress of a nation.

dryhat

PaulF81 wrote: »

Listen, I have spent most of my working life in this part of the world and I am telling you, its sectarian pure and simple. Yes, there is a diverse mix of people in palestine as there is in israel, however, the underlying hatred is divvied on grounds of arab vs jew.

Well you haven't learnt much from your time there.

The arabs that you speak of are not engaged in a war on judaism and never have been.

Their enemy is zionism and they see the foriegn support given to this policy as hypocritical and corrupt. These zionists are as fanatical and irrational as their extreme muslim counterparts.

The_White_Horse

this is garbage, the arabs hate the jews and always have. trying to split it into zionism is just what the racists say. we love jews, we hate zionists. yeah right. you hate jews. next thing they'll say is "some of my best mates are black".

Linton

The_White_Horse wrote: »

this is garbage, the arabs hate the jews and always have. trying to split it into zionism is just what the racists say. we love jews, we hate zionists. yeah right. you hate jews. next thing they'll say is "some of my best mates are black".

Suggest you look at history. In the middle ages whilst we were burning heretics at the stake and expelling the English Jewish population the Muslim empires had a remarkable record of tolerance of all other religions. There were centuries old large Jewish areas in all the major Arab cities right up until the establishment of Israel.

robmatic

Linton wrote: »

Suggest you look at history. In the middle ages whilst we were burning heretics at the stake and expelling the English Jewish population the Muslim empires had a remarkable record of tolerance of all other religions. There were centuries old large Jewish areas in all the major Arab cities right up until the establishment of Israel.

Indeed, the Ottoman empire/caliphate was a multi-cultural (or maybe multi-community) society for hundreds of years.

The_White_Horse

so basically, it's ok for the jews to live under muslim/arab rule - then everyone gets on. but if the muslim/arab has to live under jewish rule - or even just the jews rule themselves, there is a problem. seems fair to me.

CLAPTON

Clifford_Pope wrote: »

It's a tragic situation, but hardly an unpredictable one.
When they founded Israel in 1948 didn't anyone wonder what the consequences would be of defining an area as the inalianable homeland of people who hadn't lived there for a thousand years, and was already inhabited by other long-established people?
They chose to base their country on inevitable and everlasting conflict with their neighbours and co-inhabitants.

In hindsight that may be true but it's taking a leap to say that 'obvious' at the time
after WW2 the world was seeing millions and millions of people relocating.
In most cases the results now is looking fairly settled although it's still possible to nuclear armaggedon to result.


In any event it doesn't really suggest a long term solution.