The SAP anti competition argument

chanz4

Terrylw1 wrote: »

They stated there were so many exceptions that it filled reporting in boxes at a rate they couldn't cope with.

Well, exception creation is based on processes which Bgas would have been fully engaged in.

So, they can largely blame themselves for poor consultancy management. Sadly, they just thing bringing in consultants means leaving them alone...its far from that!

SAP in utilities is often aimed at creating lots of pointless exceptions that you just don't need. It works on the process so strictly that it fails to understand that by creating so many exceptions for what is really one event, just makes processing time longer and costs more money.

One non supplier company in the utility market had been discussing ditching SAP due to its inflexibility last year. I'm not sure what came of that though.

Wasnt that edf?

molerat

retiredin2011 wrote: »

so what is SAP?

Silly Aromatic Praying?

Not everyone is in the business and understands meaningless initials.

Systemanalyse und Programmentwicklung (System Analysis and Program Development)
or
Sodding Awful Programming.

The retail company I used to work for bought it and the whole system almost collapsed.

It invented new stock.
Applied one stores stock delivery to any random store's stockfile.
Allowed on line customers to order stock that did not exist and when those orders were cancelled it put those (non existent) items back into stock.
When ordering an item for an in store customer it queued that (urgent) order after everything else i.e. if 10 stores each had just put in their routine 1000+ line order the customer order would be at the back of the queue sometimes waiting 4 hours for a confirmation.
A customer asked for finance which the system considered an order so the previous mentioned delay applied.

Admittedly some of the problems could be put down to lax specifications but the "experts" should have spotted many of them. Many of the bolt on components simply did not work. 5 years on it is still not 100% fixed. "Seamless system integration" was a buzzphrase when purchasing it !! Why do companies keep on buying such poorly performing software.

backfoot

I always wondered how golfer Ernie Els got involved with SAP. I realise now it's not because he uses their systems, but is a collaborative play on his nickname.

'The Big Easy' (money)

C_Mababejive

Ermmm...I have no direct experience of this kind of software save as an end user but it does seem to me that it is THE end solution which is marketed as the all in one integrated business software package. Does anyone have any experience of SAP and Click/Syclo in a customer service environment?

I see it as a kind of Cult. The cult of SAP. The great God SAP will make everything much better. It will make our work easier,more productive,more cost effective and we will all smile.

There are thousands of SAP gurus who wander round the universe providing services to those who have or wish to join the cult of SAP.

The disciples and gurus can then jump in there, earn a small fortune leading the blind and then get out before it all implodes,add the client to their impressive list on linkdn or similar and move on to the next implementation.

Its a bit like the emperors new clothes.

The tricky bit is when the music stops playing...

Terrylw1

chanz4 wrote: »

Wasnt that edf?

Not sure about EDF but I remember reading about Bgas & Accenture and thinking how similar it was to the builds I've seen.

Far too many exception points, you really don't need 10 rejections for 1 piece of work.

SAP in utilities looks for every possible exception failure and flags them all up. The end result is a manual fix that can require several different teams due to their permissions as opposed to pre-SAP where the process allowed 1 user to handle it.

Even if you handle the whole thing, it doesn't even close as it expects a manager to check every exception to sign it off. Whoever, thought up that seems to think an organisation can avoid 1 manager per member of staff under them!

steve-L

chanz4 wrote: »

Wasnt that edf?

Erm.... and every other utility that tried to use it.....

steve-L

Terrylw1 wrote: »

Not sure about EDF but I remember reading about Bgas & Accenture and thinking how similar it was to the builds I've seen.

That was the Centrica Jupiter Project
Quite interesting as Centrica sued Accenture not only for non-delivery but actual damages and interest.....
Accenture tried to wriggle out with an exception clause (Whatever we do wrong you can't sue us for direct or indirect) and the judge told them the contract was not upholdable and let Centrica sue them.... Accenture took it to appeal, lost and then settled out of court.

Far too many exception points, you really don't need 10 rejections for 1 piece of work.

Oh this was a LOT LOT more than 10..... I remember it was thousands....

SAP in utilities looks for every possible exception failure and flags them all up. The end result is a manual fix that can require several different teams due to their permissions as opposed to pre-SAP where the process allowed 1 user to handle it.

Even if you handle the whole thing, it doesn't even close as it expects a manager to check every exception to sign it off. Whoever, thought up that seems to think an organisation can avoid 1 manager per member of staff under them!

Erm As i said SAP expects you to write your business processes around the software.... not have the software facilitate your processes.

Terrylw1

steve-L wrote: »

That was the Centrica Jupiter Project
Quite interesting as Centrica sued Accenture not only for non-delivery but actual damages and interest.....
Accenture tried to wriggle out with an exception clause (Whatever we do wrong you can't sue us for direct or indirect) and the judge told them the contract was not upholdable and let Centrica sue them.... Accenture took it to appeal, lost and then settled out of court.

Oh this was a LOT LOT more than 10..... I remember it was thousands....


Erm As i said SAP expects you to write your business processes around the software.... not have the software facilitate your processes.

I agree, its expected that all industries work as SAP does, not that SAP should fit to the industry.

There are loads of processes in this sector that can be fully automated (barring any reporting exceptions) and Legacy systems had been upgraded over the years to achieve this.

Now try and accomplish this in SAP and find yourself with more exceptions for the same process. Too many places it can go wrong.

Then you have this modular projection management model where modules are tested in isolation but not with each other to ensure models communicate. I've never really experienced such a widespread culture of isolation testing until SAP.

uptomyeyeballs

One thing for sure, in our industry, stock control is the most important thing. We regularly write off £50k every quarter from SAP. Stock that it hasn't accounted for, but has been used in the real world. Because it hasn't been accounted for, stocks are wrong, MRP runs underestimate actual requirements, orders get thrown out through lack of raw materials, etc, etc, etc. And don't even get me started on Inventory Managed and Warehouse Managed stocks, Umel Zones, COGI errors and such like! I'll explode!

25.6_Pre-contract_oblig

Hi chanz4, in the thread

Started switch process before Npower price increase...
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/56642041#Comment_56642041
in Post #8, on 19-10-2012,
you said "If you are switching to a fixed rate it shouldnt be effected, if not then it would be. I believe they are migrating to sap today fully. Also they have given you the same cooling off period all suppliers give with is 14 days"

emphasis added.

Then on 24 October 2012 in Post #3 of
Npower - Does it take 7 days to get an answer
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4250555

You said "havent their systems also been down for a few days?"

chanz4 your information seems quite specific.
Do you have any other information about 'how the implementation of SAP at npower is progressing'?

25.6_Pre-contract_oblig