EDF direct debit manipulation

Retrovertigo

Still waiting on my request here. Today is one week since I spoke to them - plus I emailed my request just to be sure.

If I receive a reply like the one above, spellings errors included, I'm not sure if I'll laugh or cry

jalexa

Retrovertigo wrote: »

Today is one week since I spoke to them - plus I emailed my request just to be sure.

Tip for you. On two occasions I have had an email request not answered (at all). On both occasions I found they had been deleted, in one case without notes being added, in the other case citing a subsequent telephone contact which had been about a different subject. The first "deception" earned a £50 ex-gratia payment.

I suggest the following tactic, make the request by email and sit out the 10 working day period. If no response inquire by phone if there is a relevant entry in your customer record. Escalate as appropriate. I have found the Complaints Resolution phone line quite effective in addressing customer service misconduct.

Obtaining the "calculation" may prove harder. I would not criticise you if at that stage you considered acceptance of your payment calculation plus an ex-gratia payment an appropriate outcome.

backfoot

Retro,

It is a 10 working day promise to get back to you. I have found they do sometimes overshoot that and it is helpful to your own case that they fail to keep to their own standards.

I hope you will continue to pursue the 'calculation' as you indicated in your post 79 and which I fully supported in post 82. It takes effort, but if you feel passionately, like I do, that the Regulations are there for a purpose,then I hope you will pursue it.

The more situations like yours which are made visible the better to obtain a fairer and more transparent system.

Retrovertigo

Ok, here is the email response I received today.

Note this is sent in reply to my email request for the breakdown of the DD calculation in my recent bill, and NOT from the chap I spoke to at CS who is supposed to be doing a proper breakdown.

Either way, there isn't a sigh large enough to express my disappointment after reading this reply:

Please accept our apology for the delay in responding to your email.

Thank you for your Email dated 26.11.2012

Thank you for contacting us via e-mail to get your issues resolved.

I would like to inform you that please provide us your current meter read we will do the direct debit review and provide the breakdown.

I trust my response has provided an explanation for your enquiry.

As you can see, that completely ignores everything I asked of them when I put my request in writing. I put down all the details for my last bill...explained the incorrect DD amount which was amended. And told them I specifically wanted a breakdown of how the £74 per month DD figure was reached. NONE of that is mentioned in that reply.

I'll give it a few more days to see if the guy I spoke to (I won't mention his name) is doing the proper calculation (which as I have already pointed out, shouldn't need to be done, as obviously it was carried out when they sent me the bill) and that was verified by someone higher up at CS.

Stalling tactics at their finest?

backfoot

Yes it is a dismal response. I agree, leave it a few days, then do as they ask and send them your current readings.You are then seen to be cooperating to find the correct figure. At the same time we all get another figure to perhaps unravel what they do.

In addition,state that you are still awaiting the information specifically requested regarding the specifc calculation that made up the £74 per month DD.

I would be warning them if it is not promptly provided then you will be formalising the request into a formal complaint.

Hope this helps.:)

Retrovertigo

Meter man has just been here needing access to the cellar for one of the other flats. He was talking about price rises etc, and mentions EDF.

One of his friends has just moved to France and is being supplied by EDF. He recent;y received a notice telling him that prices wouldn't be rising in the new year as (I'm paraphrasing) "Our european partners in the U.K (etc etc) are all having price rises in the new year which will help subsidise the prices in France"

This could be old news as I haven't looked on the boards yet. But pretty shocking if they are spelling this out to French customers.

steve-L

The whole issue here is that there is some expectation to pay the same each month .....and that the energy suppliers will somehow give you 0% interest on what you borrow through the year.

I'm not saying these tariffs shouldn't exist at all but they shouldn't be the norm.

It makes far more sense to just pay for what we used regularly.

Of course the utilities companies what to make a big fat profit. They have a responsibility to shareholders not to mention big fat bonus's for the Execs.

We as consumers have let them create this fantasy situation where if you take it back 30 years your coal supplier would supply coal at a fixed rate and make any adjustments at the end of the year.

From the utilities companies POV they are taking risks on energy prices and being asked to loan money over the winter months to get back in the summer. As such they have manipulated the situation to their advantage. (we the consumer are the ones that pay)

The system is simply broken when most or a large percent of the population are on it. Millions move house every year, millions ore change suppliers ...

The utility companies are trying NOT to read meters as it costs them money to do so... but they are also being expected to provide a lending facility.
They can't estimate what they actually have the figures for and they rely on computers to calculate 'expected use' mostly it seems with no idea HOW.

The whole system is overly complex and deliberately obfuscating.
If switching is to work to keep a free market then it should be immediate.. same day as meter reading. The utilities companies need to publish tariffs....

The whole idea that DD is 'cheaper' seems to somehow escape criticism... its cheaper because they just estimate and don't need to actually read meters! It gets made to look attractive by lending us money in winter but why would it be cheaper to lend us money?
Instead they OVER estimate in order to ensure on balance they are in credit and earning interest not paying it. hey cover their other losses in this way and getting a DD is just a way to make sure they have a ready supply of customers to LEND them money.

We, the consumers pay....

If we as consumers want smoothing of bills then we have to accept it will cost us more overall... why wouldn't it? (It costs more to borrow than be in credit)....

backfoot

I think you are over complicating the issue. I have used DD's ever since they were invented for Utility Bills.Only recently has it become a problem.

It is fundamentally easy and most customers want it kept simple and essentially consistent. We all realise the prime movers for a change will be price and volume. Unfortunately, the suppliers have made up other variables like changing review dates or using forecasting models to react to very short term consumption changes and extrapolate them wider.

As a result many nonsense numbers are being generated and customers simply object and ask where have these numbers come from. They are required to tell us.

These are multinational companies. It shouldn't be difficult for them to develop suitable reliable systems with associated explanations for customers. The ball in is their court.

backfoot

As it happens I have this minute received a response from Scottish Power to a request I made yesterday. The request was to explain a significant change upwards in my DD.

I think it is a perfect example of a simple 'calculation'

The breakdown of your forecasted energy over the next 12 months is as follows:

Current Service Package: Online Online Fixed Saver November 2012 (Version A)

Electricity 900 kWh x Unit price 20.986p £188.87
Electricity 2650 kWh x Unit price 10.381p £275.10
Discounts £21.06
VAT £22.04
Total £464.95

Gas 2680 kWh x Unit price 7.139p £191.33
Gas 39200 kWh x Unit price 3.164p £1,240.29
Discounts £10.02
VAT £70.88
Total £1,492.47

Total Electricity and Gas Charges £1,957.42
Current Debit Balance £29.25
Total Cost £1,986.67

Dividing this total by 12 months shows your Direct Debit should be set at £165.56.

Your Direct Debit has been set to £166.00 per month to reflect the above calculations. This amount will begin being deducted from your bank from 3 January 2013. '

If SP can do this within a day and probably less why have EDF made such an issue of it? In fact, they refuse to tell you.

Well done SP. :T

p.s.they have quoted the wrong product but the rates used are correct. So not quite perfect....:rotfl:

jalexa

backfoot wrote: »

I think it is a perfect example of a simple 'calculation'

I remember some years ago Scottish Power also being able to explain to my satisfaction.

For the avoidance of doubt what is the provenance of the projected usage? Is it *exactly* your actual (or estimated) previous 12 months usage?

Would you like some energy efficiency advice?:D