EDF direct debit manipulation

brewerdave

Buzby wrote: »

Clearly, the consumer will always be on the back foot, having to wade through a fairy-tale of inappropriate figures, but only by paying for the consumption actually used each quarter protects you from this manipulation.

....but paying by DD gives me an extra ~£80 in MY pocket - I'm happy to monitor on a monthly basis by spreadsheet and log in every few weeks to check that they haven't slipped a recalculation of DD in:)

snowcat53

I have just had a reply from EDF customer services, relevant bits below. I will comment more later but instantly this strikes me as incomprehensible & absurd - and there is still no calculation!.
Views?

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With reference to the calculation of your direct debit instalment as detailed on your bill dated 20th September 2012, the annual review of your direct debit payment plan is designed to project an estimate of your consumption providing the basis for the calculation of your monthly instalments. If the review of your direct debit is carried out before the annual review is due the system will confirm how much should have been paid into an account at any point within the yearly period, if the correct amount of money has not been collect it will increase the payments to bring the account back in line, this can be caused by the customer not paying the correct Direct Debits to cover what they are using or if the customer has had a refund before the annual review has taken place. The payments can also be decreased if an overpayment has been made.

When you called on the 16th November 2012 regarding your mothers Direct Debit amounts increasing to £178.00 per month from £125.00. The Direct Debit should not have been changed to the £130.00 with out a meter reading being taken and the account being bill to date, as you were calling 2 months after the bill had been issued.

Please can you contact us with up to date meter reads for both the Gas and the Electricity to allow the account to be billed, so we can see exactly how the account stands. This will allow us to work out the Direct Debit correctly as we can take into account if there is a credit/debit balance on the account. Your mother’s annual review for her Direct Debits is due December 2012.

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backfoot

Para 1 is as you say, incomprehensible.

Para 2 seems to be blaming you for their wild assessment of the DD. You are very naughty for getting it changed to £130 without doing your job properly.

Para 3 is telling you to have another go and hopefully do a better job this time.;)

At least that's what I think it says . It is like one of those things where you have to love it, because it so awful.

I am not trivialising the issue, but honestly, what on earth are we dealing with ? Time to tip off Ofgem about this thread as well.

p.s. Just asked my wife to read it. She doesn't understand it at all and she is far brighter than me!

jalexa

snowcat53 wrote: »

Views?

Given that the 'annual review' is due in December I would extend a length of rope to Edf by waiting for the review to take place and then taking stock. In my experience a request to provide meter readings is (should be) made approximately 4 weeks before the review date with approximately 3 weeks allowed to provide readings which will be used for the 'review'. Clearly the arithmetic outcome can cut either way, but hopefully in a way you can exploit.

Regarding the communication, my approach is that at the "pay grade" of the staff employed to deal with customers there is less understanding of how the Edf computer calculates than you, me and others possess, so in a way I think the customer service angle is pointless.

Given the hesitant grasp of both grammar and logic, perhaps the "pay-grade" of the staff is even lower than we first thought.

My own view is that the pressure point for this problem should be Ofgem Consumer Affairs Directorate and on that I wish backfoot well.

Do you have an Energy Ombudsman "decision" requiring provision of the "calculation"?

victor2

snowcat53 wrote: »

If the review of your direct debit is carried out before the annual review is due the system will confirm how much should have been paid into an account at any point within the yearly period, if the correct amount of money has not been collect it will increase the payments to bring the account back in line, this can be caused by the customer not paying the correct Direct Debits to cover what they are using or if the customer has had a refund before the annual review has taken place.

You have to wonder what the person who wrote that sentence was on - and where I can get some.

But as backfoot says, it's all your fault anyway....

backfoot

Perhaps, we are not doing the letter justice. The new tactic is that any complaint about about a DD change has to be made instantaneously and if not, you must provide an up to date read so it can be recast.

A sort of Catch 22 DD situation. (Oh what a book that is)

snowcat53

Yes it is all my fault and I must obviously apologise to EDF for causing them so much confusion.

It really is jaw-dropping staggering chutzpah.

I guess my options are to go back and demand again the calculation they should have given in September, or wait until the annual review.

Jalexa - the EO judgement was about my own bill not this one, but I may remind them I have won once on this issue and am quite willing to take it all the way again. What is most depressing is that they are not learning any lessons.

I am coming to the conclusion that no-one there knows how 'the system' comes up with these numbers, and they have no way of finding out. I have this vision of white robed worshippers feeding the machine with data and accepting the answers with reverence. Just like Deep Thought in Hitchhikers' Guide,

WestonDave

Err if they really mean what they say in paragraph one, the only grounds for altering DD's within a year is if you miss a payment or get a refund out of them - consumption being different to prediction doesn't enter into it. Which as we all know is utter tripe because the second you put in a meter reading it spits out a different DD amount!

I'd personally go back and demand the calculation as to how they came to £178 as opposed to £175 or some other figure as clearly its calculated somehow. That appears to be their weak point - they can capitulate and put the DD's back down but its increasingly clear they can't actually recreate the computer's logic to explain how its coming up with the figures it is. At least I'm assuming that's why I've today had my third holding response now suggesting my query is being dealt with by a "specialist department" - that'll be the room full of chimps all typing furiously then!

Out of devilment I've submitted the latest monthly meter readings so we'll see what that spits out!

backfoot

WestonDave wrote: »

I'd personally go back and demand the calculation as to how they came to £178 as opposed to £175 or some other figure as clearly its calculated somehow. That appears to be their weak point - they can capitulate and put the DD's back down but its increasingly clear they can't actually recreate the computer's logic to explain how its coming up with the figures it is.

Out of devilment I've submitted the latest monthly meter readings so we'll see what that spits out!

Spot on. Even 8 months later and with a EO ruling and it still hasn't appeared for me. More and more people are getting fed up with this systemic merry go round that eventually the message will get through. EDF are increasingly getting into an uncomfortable position.
Well done for adding your support. :T

snowcat53

Thank you all for your support and advice.:T

I have now sent a reply escalating to the status of a complaint (so the clock starts ticking) and again demanding the detailed explanation and calculation for the 178, as at the date of the last bill.

I also let them know I had already won an EO case which judgement had made it clear they had to supply this detailed calculation on request to comply with SLC27.14, and that I was quite willing to take it all the way again..

Meanwhile I'm keen to hear how others have got on with their similar requests