London Councils (POPLA) have show how incompetent they are!

SodG24

BASFORDLAD wrote: »

Well ive got the answer.

Stephen Benton has advised that "he doesn't actually have the answer to this question" as it wont be known until they have a body of cases at the end of the month and the adjudicators will know whats going on......

He also said stats would be produced around March of completed cases which would be available to the BPA/General Public

In other words they'll make it up as they go along !

Sirdan

ManxRed wrote: »

So 'this ticket is unenforceable under English Law' isn't a valid appeal point?

Are these people actually for real? Are they idiots?

Which will soon bring the POPLA into serious disrepute ...if they really operate as they themselves seem to be suggesting then they may as well not exist...

PS Idiots ??? No Stooges would be more appropriate ...(allegedly)

ManxRed

This could potentially lead to the scenario whereby lots of innocent motorists appeal to PPC, appeal to POPLA - POPLA realise ticket is legally unenforceable but instead of stating this and upholding the appeal - they reject the appeal. Motorist thinks ticket has legitimate standing and pays up.

What it will need to sink it is a PPC rejection, a POPLA rejection, and a court case where the PPC get's spanked.

Of course, the PPCs may choose simply to pocket the money they receive and not bother with court, unless a hothead like Simon goes for it at some point thinking a POPLA decision will sway a judge on a point of law.

Sirdan

ManxRed wrote: »

This could potentially lead to the scenario whereby lots of innocent motorists appeal to PPC, appeal to POPLA - POPLA realise ticket is legally unenforceable but instead of stating this and upholding the appeal - they reject the appeal. Motorist thinks ticket has legitimate standing and pays up.

What it will need to sink it is a PPC rejection, a POPLA rejection, and a court case where the PPC get's spanked.

Of course, the PPCs may choose simply to pocket the money they receive and not bother with court, unless a hothead like Simon goes for it at some point thinking a POPLA decision will sway a judge on a point of law.

Quite so. In fact if POPLA are already out there saying they won't consider points of law, then a POPLA decision against the motorist has no relevance whatsoever in any County Court case which is defended on those points of law ..like ..HMRC vs VCS for example !!!:rotfl:

Way to go POPLA ..as much use as a chocolate teapot !

ManxRed

The problem of course will be convincing the public of this (the chocolate teapot analogy).

I foresee a short term gain for the PPCs, but carrying the enormous risk that if/when POPLA gets shown up for the sham it looks like it might possibly become (although I don't want to be too hasty) then the whole BPA/POFA thing will turn into a minor scandal.

Here's hoping anyway.

POPLA - if you are reading this, there's nothing I'd like more than for you to prove me and others wrong on this. It's not looking likely so far though!

Whatdoiknow

If someone didn't want to ignore any demand from the PPC, rather than actually appealing to the PPC and then POPLA on legal grounds such as the HMRC v VCS verdict, why not in the first instance right back to the PPC and say that before you can make grounds for an appeal would the PPC please provide what proprietary interest in the land do they have to make such a contract enforcable, give them 14 days and state that if they do not reply with the relevant information you deem the matter to be closed, just don't make it sound as if you are actually appealing the notice.

You could also add that if they make any further demands without providing the relevant information you would deem it be contractual that every letter they said would require a fee to yourself of £100.00.

If they still keep writing, deduct the original charge off what they owe you and ask them to pay you.

trisontana

PoPLA was set up on a false premise. They are basing it on the council model where clearly defined laws and Local Traffic Orders are in place. So you have either broken the law or you haven't.

In the case of private parking tickets there are no such laws, only the more general civil ones of trespass or contract law. That's the problem.

taffy056

BASFORDLAD wrote: »

He also stated that legal issues were not a valid appeal point but it didnt meant these couldnt be looked at......

You jesting ? So something illegal is not an appeal point ? So a clear breach of the equalties act is not one, so it would appear they think they are above that, so the law is not an appeal point! I'm staggered honestly

Sirdan

taffy056 wrote: »

You jesting ? So something illegal is not an appeal point ? So a clear breach of the equalties act is not one, so it would appear they think they are above that, so the law is not an appeal point! I'm staggered honestly

Indeed particularly when their own website says this :-

Having considered the evidence presented by both parties the Assessor has to come to a conclusion about what actually happened (make findings of fact). The Assessor then has to apply the relevant law to these findings of fact. In cases where the Assessor determines that you are liable for the parking charge, he or she must refuse the appeal.

Source :-
http://www.popla.org.uk/FAQs.htm

Of course the problem will be that whilst the assessor will be fully conversant with statutory parking law as applied to Councils he/she probably won't know diddly about Contract law or tort of tresspass etc etc ..

BASFORDLAD

taffy056 wrote: »

You jesting ? So something illegal is not an appeal point ? So a clear breach of the equalties act is not one, so it would appear they think they are above that, so the law is not an appeal point! I'm staggered honestly

I jest not

Thats exactly what he said!