Universal Job Match at http://jobseekers.direct.gov.uk

weeta_bix

john539 wrote: »

They need to get people signed-up by hook or by crook. Government policy demands it, you've seen terrible headlines in news this week on failing work programme dismally missing its target.

JC advisors are not used to being questioned & challenged. Your advisor doesn't want to lose face being shown that they are wrong. They have called your bluff by saying you can speak to a manager, which most people would avoid & which offloads responsibility, but that doesn't exactly encourage people to engage with a snooping website.

If they say it's mandatory they should be able to show something in writing that says this.

Rather than confronting & cornering them into awkward situation, maybe just keep telling them you are using website (without registering). Avoid saying you haven't registered as they'll just latch onto that and keep saying you should/must.

John, thanks ever so much for your advice. I tried this way today when I signed on and things went much better. They also seem to have had more info/changed their minds since the last time I spoke to them.

I had the same adviser when I signed on as I had last week, the one that told me it was mandatory and that if I didn't like it I could speak to a manager.

She asked me if I had signed up to Universal Job Match. I said that I hadn't but I had been applying for jobs from that website.

She asked me to sign up. I told her that I was not comfortable signing up, after everything that had been in the news this week about fake job adverts.

She told that I needed to sign up and that they now have computers in the Jobcetnre with internet access and that she could get someone to help me register. I told her I didn't want to do this and asked what would happen if I didn't sign up.

She then informed me that it was not a legal requirement to sign up. Whereas last time when I asked her if it was compulsory, she told me it was.

That was really the best result I could have hoped for. I wasn't expecting the conversation to go well, so I recorded it. So I now have a recording of the adviser telling me that it is NOT a legal requirement to sign up Universal Job Match.

I was very calm and tried to leave a nice long natural pause between each question, so that the adviser did not feel cornered. I don't want to make anyone else feel pressured either. I think it worked really well, thanks again for your help John539.

Slightly sad they have computers in there now, just for the purpose of pressuring people to sign up. Especially when people have been asking for internet access in there for ages to help them with job search. I guess now it suits them they have them. I hope everyone else questions it.

AP007

weeta_bix wrote: »

John, thanks ever so much for your advice. I tried this way today when I signed on and things went much better. They also seem to have had more info/changed their minds since the last time I spoke to them.

I had the same adviser when I signed on as I had last week, the one that told me it was mandatory and that if I didn't like it I could speak to a manager.

She asked me if I had signed up to Universal Job Match. I said that I hadn't but I had been applying for jobs from that website.

She asked me to sign up. I told her that I was not comfortable signing up, after everything that had been in the news this week about fake job adverts.

She told that I needed to sign up and that they now have computers in the Jobcetnre with internet access and that she could get someone to help me register. I told her I didn't want to do this and asked what would happen if I didn't sign up.

She then informed me that it was not a legal requirement to sign up. Whereas last time when I asked her if it was compulsory, she told me it was.

That was really the best result I could have hoped for. I wasn't expecting the conversation to go well, so I recorded it. So I now have a recording of the adviser telling me that it is NOT a legal requirement to sign up Universal Job Match.

I was very calm and tried to leave a nice long natural left pause between each question, so that the adviser did not feel cornered. I don't want to make anyone else feel pressured either. I think it worked really well, thanks again for your help John539.

Slightly sad they have computers in there now, just for the purpose of pressuring people to sign up. Especially when people have been asking for internet access in there for ages to help them with job search. I guess now it suits them they have them. I hope everyone else questions it.

But it's well know you do not have to join the site and people have even said it on here.

If its not a new jsa or on dwp headed paper then its not mandatory - very easy.

weeta_bix

AP007 wrote: »

But it's well know you do not have to join the site and people have even said it on here.

If its not a new jsa or on dwp headed paper then its not mandatory - very easy.

Not sure if I have misunderstood, didn't get much sleep for worrying last night. What you are saying? Are you re-iterating that you don't have to sign up? I have not signed up.

I'm not sure that what you are saying about headed paper is true, since directions can be given verbally and directions are mandatory.

AP007

weeta_bix wrote: »

Not sure if I have misunderstood, didn't get much sleep for worrying last night. What you are saying? Are you re-iterating that you don't have to sign up? I have not signed up.

I'm not sure that what you are saying about headed paper is true, since directions can be given verbally and directions are mandatory.

I know you do not have to sign up but you have said they told you that you had to and now they aren't?

Anything given verbally can just be said 'oh you never told me'. I have never been told to attend an appt or do something unless it was on a letter or on my jsa.

I am saying people on here have been saying you do not have to sign up (I have been looking at the threads) and people were just laying into them saying 'I have been told its mandatory' etc or 'good luck having no money'

weeta_bix

AP007 wrote: »

I know you do not have to sign up but you have said they told you that you had to and now they aren't?

Anything given verbally can just be said 'oh you never told me'. I have never been told to attend an appt or do something unless it was on a letter or on my jsa.

I am saying people on here have been saying you do not have to sign up (I have been looking at the threads) and people were just laying into them saying 'I have been told its mandatory' etc or 'good luck having no money'

That's correct, it was even the same adviser that told me it was mandatory last week and told me it is not a legal requirement this week. She had quite a different attitude, I am wondering if they have been re-briefed by their manager since the new information was released by PCS on the 3rd of this month:
http://www.pcs.org.uk/en/department_for_work_and_pensions_group/dwp-news.cfm/id/D34395B0-26B7-4E67-81B32F80CFEBB3E8

Also I would imagine after all the coverage on Channel 4 News they would be expecting more questions so have been advised how to deal with them?

I would imagine you are probably right about being able to say that about verbal communication with them, but I think technically they can give directions verbally (whether they have to tell you it is a direction I do not know), so I was erring on the side of caution there.

I can understand people saying things like 'good luck having no money', I think people are saying this out of fear. I was terrified before I went in today, I can't afford a sanction. But I know in reality my concerns are valid and that all the evidence backs up the fact that it is not a legal requirement to sign up. I don't think it is helpful to other people to lash out like this however. So I hope I have been clear in explaining what has happened to me, in the hopes that it will re-assure others about being confident to question their Jobcentre advisers.

How are you getting on AP007?

AP007

weeta_bix wrote: »

That's correct, it was even the same adviser that told me it was mandatory last week and told me it is not a legal requirement this week. She had quite a different attitude, I am wondering if they have been re-briefed by their manager since the new information was released by PCS on the 3rd of this month:
http://www.pcs.org.uk/en/department_for_work_and_pensions_group/dwp-news.cfm/id/D34395B0-26B7-4E67-81B32F80CFEBB3E8

Also I would imagine after all the coverage on Channel 4 News they would be expecting more questions so have been advised how to deal with them?

I would imagine you are probably right about being able to say that about verbal communication with them, but I think technically they can give directions verbally (whether they have to tell you it is a direction I do not know), so I was erring on the side of caution there.

I can understand people saying things like 'good luck having no money', I think people are saying this out of fear. I was terrified before I went in today, I can't afford a sanction. But I know in reality my concerns are valid and that all the evidence backs up the fact that it is not a legal requirement to sign up. I don't think it is helpful to other people to lash out like this however. So I hope I have been clear in explaining what has happened to me, in the hopes that it will re-assure others about being confident to question their Jobcentre advisers.

How are you getting on AP007?

How am I getting on? In what way? The lady I sign with has made no mention of the new site at all so I carry on as usual and I still use the site every day but I do not need to be a member.

weeta_bix

AP007 wrote: »

How am I getting on? In what way? The lady I sign with has made no mention of the new site at all so I carry on as usual and I still use the site every day but I do not need to be a member.

Just wondered if you had had any problems yourself. Sounds like you are doing ok, that is great to hear

john539

AP007 wrote: »

But it's well know you do not have to join the site and people have even said it on here.

If its not a new jsa or on dwp headed paper then its not mandatory - very easy.

It doesn't stop them trying it on, pressurising or them giving you a hard time now or later if you're not careful & how you deal with it.

It seems some people have been referred to Decision Maker.

It comes down to a one on one situation with an advisor, who is probably under pressure from their manager, how you deal with them, how they take it & react.

ArtoDeeto

WOW 28 pages complaining about Universal Jobmatch and the feedback from JC Advisers - they sound like employees of Belzebuub.
Not that I am a disciple of the devil BUT I would treat people honestly and fairly (I have been on Jobseekers) and if they came in having done all they can to find work Universal Jobmatch would be a side issue. No manager would have told me to pressure anyone into anything but I would make them sign up to it purely because it increases the chances of finding work. I would also tell them I'd never secretely sub (force) them to apply for a job without discussing it first.
Of course if someone came in with a diary written on the bus that might be a different case. In which case I would be an IT 'snoop' because UJ would show if it had all been done 5 minutes previously.

It's all about doing all you can to find work - who can ask for more? If you have a traffic warden for a JC adviser I feel sorry for you. If you are comfy and just going for a ride (which I am sure no one here is) then let the employees of Belzebuub give you a fast track to Hades.

CS007

weeta_bix has it spot on with the reference to the 3rd Dec post on the PCS web-site; I advise all who are concerned about this to print and take with them next time they visit.

I was in earlier this week, to sign on as normal; saw 3rd advisor in 3 visits, young trainee I suspect, so the fact that she did not mention Jobmatch AT ALL is not conclusive..

Last 2 visits their objectives have been pretty clear: does my 'diary' show 2 job applications made over last 2 weeks ? if so, type them into their computer, & move on..(to the next 'customer').

Re the point on computers being available for 'customers' at the sign-on shop:

- I took in a USB memory pen with a .pdf file proof of an interview attended, so they volunteered their 'customer computer' to allow them to see the file;

- my 'advisor' for that day needed some help (from me, I am sort of IT) on 'how to turn it on';

- she could not tell/show me which application could be used to find / open the .pdf file on the USB memory (she knew where to put it :rotfl:though)

- decided it would be easier (for her) if I opened my email on their computer so I could could show her the interview invite; but was 'stumped' when I was unable to logon (I am pretty sure that was due to the security measure implemented by Yahoo to make it harder for hackers at other computers to break into your account).

- so the advisor went to get a 'supervisor' who may know what to do..while she was away I figured how to find/open the file with Firefox (only other accessible apps on the Linux desktop were OOcalc & OOwriter, which did not understand .pdfs)

Bottom line: they have so little resource / expertise, they can only afford to give 'special treatment' (including computer access / help with the minimalist system) to those who they believe are not meeting the (standard) JSA conditions, or maybe fraudulently claiming benefits.

John539 is effectively saying 'learn to play judo' with the advisors; avoid any direct conflict with them, or backing them into a corner; and make sure you have some sort of evidence to show about why Jobmatch is not right for you (Arto Deetoo's point).