Holiday Property Bond

rickd

I share a healthy scepticism with the best of them but some of the posters on this thread should admit that they know nothing about the subject that they are writing about. I joined the HPB in 1985 (I think) and I am not employed by them nor do I earn anything from them, nor does the HPB know about my writing this post.
First of all it is NOT an investment. An investment is something that you put money into hoping to make some sort of income or profit. The HPB is something that you SPEND money on, if you can afford it, as a purchase to benefit yourself. It isn't timeshare and it doesn't have most of the timeshare drawbacks. It is also not a cheap product and that, I think, is deliberate. I have never experienced any significant problem with any HPB property and the standard is unfailingly always very high. I guess you pays your money and takes your choice. It certainly isn't for everybody but I'm glad I put some money in way back then-when I could afford it ! Now it is there for life and for the next two generations.
If anyone wants genuine answers about the HPB from a real bondholder rather than asking the HPB themselves, then PM me and I'll do my best to answer. I can't sell you a bond and can't give you any financial advice but I can tell you the truth rather than you relying on some of the made up nonsense that has been posted on here.
The HPB is definitely NOT a scam of any kind. You get EXACTLY what you pay for.
Like I said, it isn't intended to be a cheap option and it certainly won't suit eveybody but that doesn't stop it being great to have.

terryw

Woosh, rarely have I have seen so many newbies suddenly finding the urge to reply extolling the virtues of a holiday company with a large upfront fee. I can't help but feel that these posters have some connection with the firm involved. Or have I just got a suspicious mind?
At least though the replies are literate which goes to show (if I am correct) that the staff at HPB are of a higher standard than employees of dubious time-share concerns who have sent replies to other threads!

rickd

terryw wrote: »

Woosh, rarely have I have seen so many newbies suddenly finding the urge to reply extolling the virtues of a holiday company with a large upfront fee. I can't help but feel that these posters have some connection with the firm involved. Or have I just got a suspicious mind?
At least though the replies are literate which goes to show (if I am correct) that the staff at HPB are of a higher standard than employees of dubious time-share concerns who have sent replies to other threads!

Nothing wrong with being suspicious but maybe you could consider that HPB bondholders - who at least know how the bond works, might read this thread and decide to correct some of the falsehoods. Personally I have been receiving Moneysavingexperts emails for quite a long time and never felt the need to register to post on the forums -which is why it was my first post. When I read some of the rubbish posted on this thread from people who have assumed that they know (based presumably on timeshare scams) I thought that it was worth correcting it so that other readers don't get mislead by it. From my experience of other forums those who post often don't necessarily have a deeper insight than others and certainly don't always have all the facts.
Just wondering about your post for example - what exactly do you mean when you talk about a large upfront fee ? I'm not saying that the HPB is free - far from it - it's not a cheap product, but could you explain further about this fee ?
Now that the bond is regulated (by the FSA) then every quotation should make the upfront charges totally specific. Is that what you refer to ?
I think my post makes it totally clear that I have no connection with HPB other than being a long-time bondholder.

jfdi

terryw wrote: »

Woosh, rarely have I have seen so many newbies suddenly finding the urge to reply extolling the virtues of a holiday company with a large upfront fee. I can't help but feel that these posters have some connection with the firm involved. Or have I just got a suspicious mind?
At least though the replies are literate which goes to show (if I am correct) that the staff at HPB are of a higher standard than employees of dubious time-share concerns who have sent replies to other threads!

Well terryw - how long a MSE member & how many posts on here qualify 'us' to comment on HPB? Do I count?

HPB member since July 1989, & just off on another hol - which I can easily afford (whoopee for me :rolleyes:!) coz I MSE other areas of my life!

A
xx

terryw

rickd wrote: »

Nothing wrong with being suspicious but maybe you could consider that HPB bondholders - who at least know how the bond works, might read this thread and decide to correct some of the falsehoods. Personally I have been receiving Moneysavingexperts emails for quite a long time and never felt the need to register to post on the forums -which is why it was my first post. When I read some of the rubbish posted on this thread from people who have assumed that they know (based presumably on timeshare scams) I thought that it was worth correcting it so that other readers don't get mislead by it. From my experience of other forums those who post often don't necessarily have a deeper insight than others and certainly don't always have all the facts.
Just wondering about your post for example - what exactly do you mean when you talk about a large upfront fee ? I'm not saying that the HPB is free - far from it - it's not a cheap product, but could you explain further about this fee ?
Now that the bond is regulated (by the FSA) then every quotation should make the upfront charges totally specific. Is that what you refer to ?
I think my post makes it totally clear that I have no connection with HPB other than being a long-time bondholder.

Thanks rikd. To help out others on this MSE forum please let us know:
1. The date and original purchase price of your investment.
2. The current available selling of your investment
and 3. The annual fee to use a property for a week

terryw

jfdi wrote: »

Well terryw - how long a MSE member & how many posts on here qualify 'us' to comment on HPB? Do I count?

HPB member since July 1989, & just off on another hol - which I can easily afford (whoopee for me :rolleyes:!) coz I MSE other areas of my life!

A
xx

Thanks jfdi. I would be inclined to accept your opinion rather than a complete newbie.
Please be good enough to let us know the answers to the questions that I have asked the chap above. This would help us all to see if HPB is worth considering.

rickd

terryw wrote: »

Thanks rikd. To help out others on this MSE forum please let us know:
1. The date and original purchase price of your investment.
2. The current available selling of your investment
and 3. The annual fee to use a property for a week

Delighted to help but understanding the HPB is made more difficult by this terminology.
In absolute truth, I never made an investment. I made a purchase of a HP Bond and it is very much more meaningful to see it as a purchase (or as expenditure) as opposed to an invesment. In terms of what I intended to purchase (i.e. the ability to use all HPB properties indefinitely) it is worth exactly the same as it was when I bought it. It's value to me is therefore exactly the same as it was on day one. That is what I purchased and that is what I still have 100% of. Your house for example can go up and down in value but you still live in it exactly the same. Economists would say that you derive the same - unchanged- utility from your asset.
You appear to be talking about a cash-in value which is definitely not the intention of the HPB. The cash-in value will be considerably less than my original payment I would expect, but I don't intend to be cashing it in so it is of no real meaning. Anyone purchasing an HPB with one eye on encashing it is buying the wrong product. If your terms of reference are what does it cost me and how much will I get back if I encash it, then the HPB is the wrong product to be looking at. In this sense it is a bit like buying a car.

If you wish to evaluate the HPB in terms of its price and its encashment value as if it was a conventional investment, then it is definitely a poor "investment". Anyone looking at it in this way shouldn't buy an HPB (or a car). If that is what you are trying to prove then there is no argument from myself. You would be correct but at the same time you would entirely miss the point of owning an HPB (or of owning a car).

It isn't an investment. Anyone who is looking at the HPB as an investment is looking at the wrong product. I have already said this in the clearest possible terms. It is not a product which is purchased in order to produce either income or capital gains so it simply isn't an investment in any nomal meaning of the term.

There are a wide range of user charges because properties are in a range of sizes and different countries have different underlying cost levels. The user charges are published every year in advance and are shown on the website. If you cannot access them (it may be on the bondholders 'bookings' part of the website) then if you could give me an example of how many people you need to sleep, and where, then I'll check the current user charge of a property of that size and location and post it on here. I'm sure that anyone contemplating the purchase of an HPB will be openly given a full list of user charges for every property. I wouldn't buy an HPB without having the full published user charge list up front.

terryw

Thanks for your reply. I have taken a quick glance at the website for this concern and they consider it to be an investment and not a purchase. Here are the first few words from the website:
Why buy just one holiday home when
you could have an interest in over 1,300

(for an initial investment of just a few thousand pounds)


A few lines further on, they mention that the minimum "investment" is £4000.



They do not agree with your comment "It isn't an investment". They state quite categorically that it IS an investment.


When I get a moment, I will check out the properties and prices, if the web-site will allow.
I will be surprised if it is not possible to rent any property (or similar) for less than the HPB price taking into account the loss of interest on the sum invested, or to use your word "purchased"


I can't help but feel that products like HPB or timeshare or vacation ownership might just have had some benefit in pre-internet days. But currently it is very easy to check the net for properties and there is absolutely no need to pay a large sum upfront to any organisation merely to obtain the right to rent holiday properties from them.

rickd

I know what the HPB website says but my purpose is to provide a means of deeper UNDERSTANDING beyond the initial interest grabber.
To talk about HPB in the same terms as a conventional investment is fairly meaningless. To evaluate HPB in the normal meaning of investment is equally misleading. To lump it together with timeshare clouds the issue rather than providing meaning and understanding, though it sets you on the road to understanding. A book-cover might set you on the road to understanding what is in the book but it isn't a basis to judge the book.
I'd say that you make investments as a way to make money whereas you buy an HPB when you already have the money and wish to spend it on yourself and your family.
Of course rental properties can be found via the internet but with HPB you KNOW that the quality will be very high and that everything that you need will be provided. You also know that the location wiill be well researched.
That much is totally worry free and many people see that as a major benefit especially when you talk about holidays and more so as people get older. To others none of that matters so it would be of no benefit to them.

After all.there is absolutely no need to eat in a restaurant when you can buy a sandwich cheaper or eat in a cafe. There is nothing at all wrong with buying sandwiches and eating in cafes and yet still people also persist in using restaurants. They may (or may not) be paying more than they need to but to judge it in those terms simply misses the point. I know that this analogy is not a perfect fit but it serves to widen the picture.

The HPB is not some manifestation of perfection but it has its place, has many happily satisfied bondholders (including myself), and this thread was not giving an accurate impression of the product IMHO.

terryw

The analogy with timeshare is, I think, perfectly fair. Both charge a hefty upfront fee regardless of it being called an investment or a purchase. Both can only be sold when not wanted at a loss. Both charge an annual fee regardless of of the investment being used or not. Both claim that the quality is high but many users do not agree.

Your comparison about eating sandwiches or a restaurant meal is an obvious one, but please bear in mind that this site is called MoneySavingExpert and there are loads of posts showing how money can be saved whilst eating in restaurants. The HPB website does not allow me to check the prices charged - I think entry is limited to members (again like timeshare sites). Surely to goodness, if the deals were good value, then it would be to the advantage of the concern to allow potential buyers to have access to the deals that they are missing out on? I would be very wary if the open firms in the travel industry demanded thousands of pounds before allowing me to see the deals that they offered.