Motorists - What annoys you most about cyclists

brat

NBLondon wrote: »

brat wrote:

This cyclist inconvenienced nobody. Can you explain why you get annoyed enough to object to this?

Because when I commuted up to Central London by train and then crossed this junction as a pedestrian I would at least once a week see cyclists do that when pedestrians were already crossing!

I cycle through a pedestrian zone twice daily, and pedestrians walk in front of me without so much as a glance to see if they're safe. It's my responsibility to avoid them, as it is for this cyclist in your video.
Pedestrians don't get injured when you cycle past them. They get injured when you hit them.

Yes your cyclist's breaking the law, dum-de-dum. If caught he may get a ticket. But he's not being unsafe.

brat

NBLondon wrote: »

brat wrote:

If you pull out from a junction and in doing so force another road user to alter course or speed, that is 'careless driving'. You must agree such a move with other road users, who will mostly accommodate your predicament.

So that only works one way does it?

??

It has the usual caveats of course. If the person is approaching at an inappropriately fast speed, so that you can't see his approach before you've committed to the manoeuvre, then you're not to blame.

Limey

brat wrote: »

No-one wants to have a death on their conscience even if completely blameless.

Cyclists are generally much more aware and alert than you give them credit for. Often the motorist sees them late, and gets caught by surprise, perhaps because they have made a quick jump over a give way line which they have already judged to be clear. This is borne out by the remarkably low fatality stats in which 'cyclist error' was the sole cause of the fatality.

Cyclits may want to quickly avoid something in the road, like a piece of glass or stone, but can't because they hear someone close behind, possibly about to pass very close. Quick shoulder checks are not a good idea when a car is close behind because it is not always easy to keep the steering absolutely straight when checking behind. A good ear is better.

I cycle too and know what you mean but I still do shoulder checks before manouvering, it's akin to checking your mirrors in a car. Never had a problem keeping it straight for the second or to it takes to look. I suppose it's easier for me as I ride a drop handlebar bike and just need to drop my head to look behind. Unlike the wobbly muppets on pointless moutain bikes.

No idea re the stats, I've not looked. But I'm sure you've heard the expression 'lies, damned lies and statistics'. I'd have thought the prime suspect is always going to be the surviving party where no witnesses are available.

Oh and a good ear is no defence against a Prius. Damn things are road Ninjas you never hear them coming. :rotfl:

NBLondon

brat wrote: »

I cycle through a pedestrian zone twice daily,

You'd think a person with legal training would have noticed the problem with that clause :think:

Yes your cyclist's breaking the law, dum-de-dum. If caught he may get a ticket. But he's not being unsafe.

Oh - of course. Cyclists are superheroes - they can dodge round pedestrians in the blink of an eye and it doesn't matter if they startle that pensioner heading to the Post Office as they swoop by.

Well - that means it must be OK for white van man to overtake you at 35mph with 1/2" of clearance. As long as he doesn't actually touch you - he's not being unsafe :mad:

If the person is approaching at an inappropriately fast speed, so that you can't see his approach before you've committed to the manoeuvre, then you're not to blame.

Cool. So when a driver checks their mirrors sees all is clear behind, then indicates left approaching a side road and starts a turn, the cyclist who has suddenly swung across from overtaking on the right to filtering/undertaking on the left is totally responsible for avoiding any accident?

NBLondon

Limey wrote: »

Oh and a good ear is no defence against a Prius. Damn things are road Ninjas you never hear them coming. :rotfl:

Be doubly warned - there are minicab Priuses about! Mind you - the wobbly muppets probably have earphones in too.

Thanks for proving that not all cyclists are arrogant idiots like some on the internet seem to be. If I'm behind you and see the look over shoulder, that immediately tells me you want to go somewhere other than straight ahead, so I will hold back until I know where you're headed.

spadoosh

Limey wrote: »

I cycle too and know what you mean but I still do shoulder checks before manouvering, it's akin to checking your mirrors in a car. Never had a problem keeping it straight for the second or to it takes to look. I suppose it's easier for me as I ride a drop handlebar bike and just need to drop my head to look behind. Unlike the wobbly muppets on pointless moutain bikes.

No idea re the stats, I've not looked. But I'm sure you've heard the expression 'lies, damned lies and statistics'. I'd have thought the prime suspect is always going to be the surviving party where no witnesses are available.

Oh and a good ear is no defence against a Prius. Damn things are road Ninjas you never hear them coming. :rotfl:

Im on a hybrid so dont enjoy the luxury of drop handle bars. And i can vouch for swerving when checking over the shoulder, i might be a wobbly muppet but have no problem hearing any car. In fact i can hear most cycles coming for the overtake.

At the end of the day (football style!) Everyone can be a tit on the roads.

I have seen women walk in front of me holding kids without looking (ended up faceplanting a car to avoid her 'i didnt hear you')

I have seen cyclist do riddiculous things that put themselve in soo much danger, and normally escaped by the skin of their teeth.

And ive seen as many drivers screw up and having big accidents.

Lets face it, the road/world is full of idiots. You just need to try and accomodate for them. Essentially though i do believe it should be a case of the most likely to cause serious damage should take the biggest action to avoid an accident. Ie. Car should choose to hit a wall over a cyclist, and i should choose to faceplant a car over a pedestrian. Its only fair as in a car i could easily potentially kill someone and on a bike i could seriously hurt someone.

I have driven through red lights, my justification being. I use a lot of quiet roads (best to avoid traffic where possible) and a lot of the lights round me arent timed. And simply dont recognise that im there. Next time you go to a pedestrian crossing dont press the button and see who long your waiting for the lights to change! I could easily be waiting at one for 10 minutes+. And i believe no one would wait that long. I use judgement and experience to know when its safe to cross and do so in an appropriate manner.

To add. How many drivers have had a bike near them without seeing them at all?? Ive done it myself, 'where the chuff did he come from?!' And would think im considerably more wary of cyclist than road users that dont/irregularly cycle.

Were not perfect dont pretend you are, remove ego's and ignorance and you half the amount of accidents.

Limey

Agree with pretty much everything you've said there Spadoosh, the muppets on mountain bikes is just a pet hate of mine (inappropriate bike for road use IMO, crap gearing makes them stupidly slow).

My philosophy is to imagine everyone on the road/pavement as if they're a complete moron. Be prepared for the worst from them. Doesn't stop me from enjoying my driving/cycling, EVERYONE needs to keep aware and not trust anything to other peoples judgement as you never know what state of mind they're in.

brat

NBLondon wrote: »

brat wrote: »

I cycle through a pedestrian zone twice daily,

You'd think a person with legal training would have noticed the problem with that clause :think:

Pedestrian zones grant permissions to other road users. If you're trying to debate these points with any credibility, you need to get the basics right before you start to criticise.

NBLondon wrote: »

brat wrote: »

Yes your cyclist's breaking the law, dum-de-dum. If caught he may get a ticket. But he's not being unsafe.

Oh - of course. Cyclists are superheroes - they can dodge round pedestrians in the blink of an eye and it doesn't matter if they startle that pensioner heading to the Post Office as they swoop by.

As I said, I'll have cycled around and past hundreds of thousands of pedestrians through the pedestrian zone, most of whom don't expect to see me. They are less predictable than someone crossing a road. Yet it's never been a problem.

NBLondon wrote: »

Well - that means it must be OK for white van man to overtake you at 35mph with 1/2" of clearance. As long as he doesn't actually touch you - he's not being unsafe :mad:

No, it's not. Nor is it OK for a cyclist or WVM to go within half an inch of a pedestrian! What a silly point!

NBLondon wrote: »

brat wrote:

If the person is approaching at an inappropriately fast speed, so that you can't see his approach before you've committed to the manoeuvre, then you're not to blame.

Cool. So when a driver checks their mirrors sees all is clear behind, then indicates left approaching a side road and starts a turn, the cyclist who has suddenly swung across from overtaking on the right to filtering/undertaking on the left is totally responsible for avoiding any accident?

It's not the same scenario, so I don't know why you've introduced the point; I would agree he's going to be primarily to blame. However if you saw him in your mirrors and didn't try to avoid him, then you would be guilty too.

spadoosh

Limey wrote: »

Agree with pretty much everything you've said there Spadoosh, the muppets on mountain bikes is just a pet hate of mine (inappropriate bike for road use IMO, crap gearing makes them stupidly slow).

My philosophy is to imagine everyone on the road/pavement as if they're a complete moron. Be prepared for the worst from them. Doesn't stop me from enjoying my driving/cycling, EVERYONE needs to keep aware and not trust anything to other peoples judgement as you never know what state of mind they're in.

Got a good tow off a roadie the other day, then i hit a hill and more or less stopped!! Just dont trust the tires. And i do a lot of canals etc.

Yep, everyones got the potential to be a tool, but as you say, doesnt take the grin off my face! Just love how much better you feel on the bike! Was a bit ill this morning (been bad all last week) and wasnt feeling to up for it, got on bike, freezing wind, big stupid grin! Nearly got it wiped off when someone pulled out pushing me towards a metal railing at about 20, but if it wasnt him it would be someone else. Happens every journey. Very rarely i dont see someone being a tool on every trip! In car, on bike, walking, theres almost always one idiot.

By no means perfect, i know ive made errors of judgement etc but (touch wood) havent caused an accident.

Think one of the most difficult things is i more or less know ill be knocked off eventually. Not many car drivers worry about going to work. Saw a guy about 6 months get dragged 200 yards onto a motorway leaving his 2 kids fatherless. Its just easier to have a mutual respect than any of this 'why do cyclist/motorists p*ss you off?'.

Doesnt matter whose fault it was, 2 kids dont have a dad because a lack of respect and awareness, just not on.

Please anyone reading this thread. If your on the road, your in a dangerous place. At the very least concentrate on what your doing (motorist/cyclist/pedestrian) Show respect for the lives and families of people around you. No one sets out to kill themself/someone else. Just be aware of each other!


To add: what grinds my gears is MTB tyres on the road. Really? You must be !!!!!!!!ed! They must have at least 3 times the resistance of my tyres and probably about 6 times a road bike. Whats the point on being on a bike if your not going anywhere. Just assume their all gym freaks with legs of steel!

brat

Limey wrote: »

I cycle too and know what you mean but I still do shoulder checks before manouvering, it's akin to checking your mirrors in a car. Never had a problem keeping it straight for the second or to it takes to look. I suppose it's easier for me as I ride a drop handlebar bike and just need to drop my head to look behind. Unlike the wobbly muppets on pointless moutain bikes.

I think we're talking slightly at cross purposes - it may be my misread of your original point. I always do a shoulder check before manoeuvreing, but if I can hear someone close behind who is likely to pass, I will not shoulder check - I simply wouldn't consider the manoeuvre if it was going to take me any closer into their path.

No idea re the stats, I've not looked. But I'm sure you've heard the expression 'lies, damned lies and statistics'.

I've only got detailed stats from my own force, looking at the bike fatals and serious serious injury RTCs over the last 10 years. The number of cycle collisions with other vehicles where the cyclist is aggressive or negligent (especially in the stereotypical sense of RLJ, ignoring give ways or no lights) is almost non-existent.

I'd have thought the prime suspect is always going to be the surviving party where no witnesses are available.

Some consideration will be given to their culpability, but if they couldn't have avoided the collision, and their driving was appropriate to all the circumstances when driving in the vicinity of slower vulnerable road users, they can't be criminally liable.

Oh and a good ear is no defence against a Prius. Damn things are road Ninjas you never hear them coming. :rotfl:

Priuses can still be heard, although I agree, they are much quieter.