Resigned by force

Resigned

Hi Miduck, thanks your response. My brother had a lawyer who wrote to the employer that he is unwell and to stop, but they were not listening but continued to put pressure on my brother. I spoke to his psychologist who said he was in a terrible state. I told my brother to resign and he said no, so I forced him to. I thought by resigning, my brother could become better.
I didn't know his employer would not close the issue but now they are saying he did this and he did that. He stole this and he stole that. I sat down and asked my brother did you do it and he said no. I believe my brother. The employer did not pay anything to my brother when he resigned. Are they supposed to? I know my brother had not taken annual holidays for few years with this company so his balance leave is like 55 days or somewhere there. Are they supposed to pay that? Now, after resigning, my brother's health condition has worsened as he keeps crying and talking rubbish and dresses up in the morning to go to work at the same employer and I keep telling him he does not have the job as he resigned. I have to force him to change back to home clothes. Then he starts crying and talking rubbish again.
Did I do the wrong thing to force him to resign? Can I overturn this? Why are there such employers out there who know how much my brother is suffering but they still want to mentally attack him? What has this world become?
Dont you feel difficult talking to lawyers? First they want you to pay them before even starting to talk to them. I am not rich.
Completely in a mess now!
Whats the best thing that I can do now? Has anyone else been in similar situations before?

miduck

On the investigation, it might be worth asking the police if they have been contacted about it? If they have not, I doubt they would entertain a complaint from the employer after all this time. When did the solicitor last write to them? Another letter would do no harm.

If you can't afford to see a solicitor again, speak to MIND - they can provide some legal assistance in cases such as this. Remember to keep each issue separate.

With regard to the outstanding monies, unless his employer has agreed to carry over his holidays, he will not be entitled to payment from previous years. However he will have accrued holidays whilst suspended, and he would be entitled to payment for his notice period. You have the small claims option here, which you can do up to six years after the event. Therefore I would get the first issue sorted before pursuing this further - one thing at a time.

I do think you did the wrong thing in forcing him to resign, but your motivations were good, and there is little you can do about it now. Even if it could be revoked, the employer/ employee relationship has irrevocably broken down, so no point in beating yourself up over it. It really sounds like you need some support too - Carers UK can help you with this, either over the phone or there may be a local group you can go to. It can be incredibly stressful seeing a loved one go through mental illness.

Some (not all) employers are scared by mental illness, indeed some are disgusted by it. I have seen many cases like this, including fabricated allegations against the worker. Sadly I doubt this will ever change, but not all employers are the same, some are supportive.

I deal with lawyers all day long, and I know they can be a strange breed. Unless you can find someone that will advise on a pro bono basis, money will be a consideration. Have a look on the LawWorks website, there may be someone nearby that can help.

miduck

It would also be worth getting Lasting Power of Attorney, so you can deal with your brother's affairs for him. Again, MIND can advise further on this. Before this is processed, you can seek your brother's written agreement to deal with the employer on his behalf - there is case law that allows someone other than a TU representative or fellow worker to support you in a disciplinary investigation, where the outcome could have a significant impact on your situation.

Uncertain

miduck wrote: »

there is case law that allows someone other than a TU representative or fellow worker to support you in a disciplinary investigation, where the outcome could have a significant impact on your situation.

There is but, as I understand it, only in the most limited of circumstances.

As far as I know the implications of any dismissal would have to go further than the current job. For example in a regulated profession where it could affect your entitlement to practice in the profession as a whole. Under those limited circumstances he may be entitled to be accompanied by a solicitor.

Obviously the company may choose to allow somebody other than a colleague or trade union rep in other circumstances but they don't have to.

miduck

Uncertain wrote: »

There is but, as I understand it, only in the most limited of circumstances.

As far as I know the implications of any dismissal would have to go further than the current job. For example in a regulated profession where it could affect your entitlement to practice in the profession as a whole. Under those limited circumstances he may be entitled to be accompanied by a solicitor.

Obviously the company may choose to allow somebody other than a colleague or trade union rep in other circumstances but they don't have to.

This does go further than the current job - the employer is implying that they may involve the police. A criminal record will affect the rest of his life.

Uncertain

miduck wrote: »

This does go further than the current job - the employer is implying that they may involve the police. A criminal record will affect the rest of his life.

I'm afraid that is not my understanding of where the right to be accompanied would be extended beyond a colleague or trade union rep.

By your argument it would apply in any alleged theft, assault or even harassment however minor and that is simply not the case. Dismissal would have no bearing on whether the police would even investigate, let alone prosecute or a court convict.

An employer does not need proof to dismiss, only a reasonable belief. The is a vastly lower standard of "proof" than the criminal level of beyond reasonable doubt.

miduck

Uncertain wrote: »

I'm afraid that is not my understanding of where the right to be accompanied would be extended beyond a colleague or trade union rep.

By your argument it would apply in any alleged theft, assault or even harassment however minor and that is simply not the case. Dismissal would have no bearing on whether the police would even investigate, let alone prosecute or a court convict.

An employer does not need proof to dismiss, only a reasonable belief. The is a vastly lower standard of "proof" than the criminal level of beyond reasonable doubt.

No, I did not state it would apply to anyone in this situation, my advice is based solely on the information given by the OP in this individual case.

lovinituk

Resigned wrote: »

I didn't know his employer would not close the issue but now they are saying he did this and he did that. He stole this and he stole that. I sat down and asked my brother did you do it and he said no. I believe my brother.

You did state that your brother was forgetting things...

Resigned wrote: »

During this period of time, my brother's health has gone from bad to worse. He is now classified as very severe depression and sometimes cannot remember where he is or even who he is.

I know this refers to the point after he was accused but if he was badly depressed before this then maybe he was forgetting things then and you just realised because it hadn't come to a head yet.

I just don't see what the company would have to gain by continuing with legal action now he has resigned if they honestly didn't think he was guilty?!

Resigned wrote: »

I know my brother had not taken annual holidays for few years with this company so his balance leave is like 55 days or somewhere there.

You generally don't accrue unused holiday time year on year. Its normally lost if you don't use it within that year although some employers will allow it to be carried over, perhaps with specific permission.

MinaMina

Resigned wrote: »

I told my brother to resign and he said no, so I forced him to. I thought by resigning, my brother could become better.

I think you were wrong to do this,i know you were trying to act on his behalf, your brother did say no!! But you forced him. When a persons says no,it means NO its there decision not anyone else's to intervene.


I wish your brother well and i wish you well too. Just concentrate on your brother's mental heath issues at this moment, his old job can wait.

Uncertain

lovinituk wrote: »

You generally don't accrue unused holiday time year on year. Its normally lost if you don't use it within that year although some employers will allow it to be carried over, perhaps with specific permission.

True.

However you can't lose at least the statutory part of your annual leave due to illness. If you are unable to take it for this reason you must be allowed to carry it over.