Resigned by force

Resigned

Hi, I am new here and need some advise.

My brother had been suffering from stress and depression for sometime. His employer somehow realised it (I guess) and so few months ago, decided to suspend him and blame him for theft. His employer said it was gross misconduct. It has been now more than 6 months and they have not given any evidence. During this period of time, my brother's health has gone from bad to worse. He is now classified as very severe depression and sometimes cannot remember where he is or even who he is. This is so stressful for me as his brother.

His employer do not care and wanted him to attend disciplinary meeting even though he raised grievances before they told him about disciplinary meetings. But they are not investigating grievances but going staight for disciplinary.

How can my brother attend the meeting if he has no clue what he is doing? His doctor has said he has mental illness now.

So, I spoke to his employer but they do not care. I told my brother just resign. He said no so I forced him to resign 2 weeks ago. The employer said they won't pay for notice period or his accured annual leave. His employer said that that was what they were looking for. After he resigned, they now say that does not mean the disciplinary thing is over. They say they may still charge my brother and go all the way to courts and so on and so forth.

Of course, now I regret forcing my brother to resign. He knows he has resigned but sometimes he forgets. Its all the symptons of his medication.

I am now confused myself. I feel the employer trapped me in forcing my brother to resign and that they will stop all the nonsense disciplinary. After resigning, the employer is saying something different and that they will still do the disciplinary. I have not told my brother about this as I am scared he may attempt suicide again as what he tried to do before.

As to why he has got mental illness, it was all the stress and things he saw at work that has led me at his current health state.

He won't recover but it is so painful to see him go through all this mess by his employer.

What can he do? What should I do? I haven't slept for many days now. I only have one brother and he is everything to me.

Resigned

I also want to add that I tried talking to some lawyers but find it so difficult. All lawyers are saying to me to pay them upfront before they even listen to what I have to say. I don't have the funds to do so. I went to CAB and not a surprise, they gave me a list of no win no fee lawyers to call. I called them and they say that I need to meet them but I am in Surrey and they are all based in Nottingham or in Manchester. Not sure what to do.

InsideInsurance

The local CAB will have local solicitors. Likewise if you or your brother has Legal Expenses on their home insurance then they will be able to give advice on if there is a possible case for constructive dismissal or not. If your brother has the insurance then they may provide representation if they feel he has a case to be made.

If your brother was to ill to attend the disciplinary hearing and was signed off sick by the doctor then the disciplinary would be suspended until such time as the doctor felt he was fit to attend the hearing at which point the process would restart. If they tried to hold it whilst he was signed off sick then almost certainly would have a very strong case at any employment tribunal

Generally it is much better to take advice BEFORE taking action.

Presumably the matter of the theft and going to court is about recovering the monies (or equiv) that is alleged to have been stolen and this is a totally separate matter to the employment rights issues

DomRavioli

Just a quick question, how do you know he won't recover? Depression is treatable and curable in the right setting, regardless of the severity.

And if you made him resign when he did not have capability to do so, then he may have a leg to stand on, but he would have to prove he had no capability to make such a decision on the day he told his employers he was resigning. This means certified mental health professionals must assess his mental health on the day in question to ascertain his state. If not, then what you did was wrong.

Resigned

Thanks InsideInsurance.
My brother was signed off when his employer said they will go ahead with the disciplinary meeting. When I showed them the doctor's letter, they said ok but just resign. So, I forced my brother to resign. Now I regret telling him to do so as they are still pushing and blaming him for theft but they have not provided any evidence. Isn't this bullying? I don't know whether it is. I don't know how to tell my brother about this. It will make him more ill than he is now. I am very worried. He has already resigned 2 weeks ago. Everything went quiet and now his employer have started blaming him again? Apart from theft, now his employer is saying he did this and he did that. Can someone here please help me?

Resigned

Hi DomRavoli, I know my brother won't be the same as he was before. He has severe mental depression and the doctor has said he may improve but won't be 100% back to normal. I have not told his doctor he has resigned but my brother did tell his doctor that I was telling him to resign and the doctor told him not to think anything about work but just focus on recovering. But I did not listen to him and just went ahead. On the day I forced my brother to resign, he did not see the doctor on that day. Is there going to be a problem?

miduck

Resigned wrote: »

the doctor told him not to think anything about work but just focus on recovering.

This is good advice. From what you have said your brother is far too unwell to be dealing with this at the moment. Any legal action will make him far worse - please keep this in mind before deciding whether to pursue this further.

Resigned

Hi Miduck, yes, my brother is far too unwell to be dealing with this. But what I wanted for him was to resign and focus 100% on his health. But this whole issue is now going to backfire on his health. What can I do legally speaking?

miduck

Resigned wrote: »

Hi Miduck, yes, my brother is far too unwell to be dealing with this. But what I wanted for him was to resign and focus 100% on his health. But this whole issue is now going to backfire on his health. What can I do legally speaking?

There are several distinct issues here, and they need to be treated as such:

* The theft allegation/ investigation.
* The outstanding pay.
* The possibility of a constructive dismissal claim.

For the first, I would speak to the GP and ask them to write to the employer detailing the impact that the ongoing situation is having on your brother's health. You may need to pay for this letter. If you get no response from this, you will need to ask a solicitor to write to them - this may be covered by a free half hour consultation. All you are aiming for here is confirmation that the investigation is closed.

How much pay do you believe your brother is owed? You could write to them, detailing the outstanding amounts, and see what you get back. If you get no further you have several options - you can ask a solicitor to write to them, you could go to an employment tribunal, or you could go to small claims court (outstanding pay would be a contractual issue). You can do small claims without a solicitor, and it is far simpler than a tribunal.

How much effort you want to put into the above really depends on how much is owed.

Constructive dismissal is complex, and the success rate of claims is incredibly low - about 3%. Given your brother's situation I would not recommend this route - a claim would be stressful enough for a healthy person. However, if you do choose to pursue it you will need to instruct a solicitor. You can do it yourself, but I really would not advise it.

If you do decide to take further action or advice, make sure you break down the issues rather than lumping them all together. It is far easier to address each issue separately.

cheyenne827

As to why he has got mental illness, it was all the stress and things he saw at work that has led me at his current health state.

Your brother should go to psychologist to make him better from his illness and to have peace of mind.

marybelle01

I don't like to be the person mentioning the elephant in the corner of the room but there are elements of this that make no sense. The employer knew that your brother was suffering from stress, you say, so they trumped up allegations of theft with no evidence. Why? Why are they now saying that they will not drop the matter but will consider some form of legal action over the alleged theft - something they cannot do without evidence. If all they wanted was a resignation - which YOU forced your brother into, because they didn't, they only said they would take disciplinary action which is entirely within their power to do and is legal - then why are they even interested in taking this further?

They aren't going to tell you what is going on, whether or not your brother is ill. They aren't going to tell you what evidence they have. That is between them and him - or a representative appointed under the relevant law which you cannot be. But if they really are consdiering taking this further, you might want to ask yourself why, if there really is no evidence. People do things that are very out of character under stress - are you absolutely positive that there isn't any truth in any of this? Just because you believe your brother and what he is saying doesn't make it true.

It's really important because ANY further intervention by you could make things a lot worse. If there is anything to their story, then they may be inclined to forget it now he's resigned. But if you start trying to sue for unpaid wages or anything else, they are not at all likely to be wrapping it all up and forgetting it.

I think rather than taking advice from a bunch of well-intentioned strangers on the internet, who really don't know anything about what has or hasn't happened, he needs to be speaking to a lawyer. Despite the fact that he isn't well, this is his life and I'm afraid that anything anyone here tells you to do is as likely to be bad advice as good advice. He's already taken one lot of advice from you, and no matter how well-intentioned you were in trying to protect him, it doesn't seem to have worked out all that well.