Simple list of tariffs

Stompa

steve-L wrote: »

Regardless of this how can I trust their calculations when I can't see their working?????

I'm pretty sure that most comparison sites show how they've calculated the result, though you generally have to click somewhere before they show that level of detail.

victor2

steve-L wrote: »

What I am looking for is a page with ALL available tariffs for a supplier showing the kWh price and their standing charge.

Cheapest First? that all depends on the usage and accuracy of their calculations even if I knew what energy I'd use.
I am not interested in their calculations of what is cheapest.

What would you do with the list of tariffs, once you'd got it?
As has been pointed out to you, the comparison sites do a good job of highlighting the possible cost for a set usage.
Say you had a supplier offering a standing charge of 15p/day and 11p/kWh, or 30p/day and 9p/kWh, which would you choose? Depends on your usage of course.
Then there's fixed versus variable tariffs. You generally pay more than the current variable prices to take a fixed one, but have the comfort of knowing it won't change for the duration. No comparison site can tell you how the variable prices will be a year from now, so you have to decide if the gamble is worth it.

Toxteth_OGrady

steve-L wrote: »

I am not interested in their calculations of what is cheapest.

I am. That's the only reason I use comparison sites.

HappyMJ

steve-L wrote: »

No the tariffs are listed, not the kWh rates. To get the kWh rates I need to click to the next screen. (One at a time)

What I am looking for is a page with ALL available tariffs for a supplier showing the kWh price and their standing charge.

Cheapest First? that all depends on the usage and accuracy of their calculations even if I knew what energy I'd use.
I am not interested in their calculations of what is cheapest.

Depending which comparison site I use they have different tariffs come up as 'cheapest' with the same information and 'saving me' different amounts. (For the same data entered)

This indicates that of the 4 sites I tried at least 3 MUST be wrong.... though I strongly suspect non of them are accurate.

Regardless of this how can I trust their calculations when I can't see their working?????


What I need to know are the kWh costs of ALL possible tariffs for every supplier for my area. I can do this supplier by supplier but not tariff by supplier or I end up with having to go to hundreds of pages to get the information to put into my model.

I can't see why the Tiered tariffs would be cheaper for anyone?
If they were, why would the energy companies be listing them that way? There might be a few instances where they might be but I'm happy to miss them out. The tiered charges are just a way of obfuscating the standing charge anyway and penalising low usage customers at the same time. If the regulator had any teeth it would force them to show the tier1 as a standing charge.

I am not looking at a simple case of switching but at reducing my energy bill overall.

This involves a lot of other variables such as replacing halogen spots with LED or ripping out the fittings and fitting compact fluorescents... (of which I have a box full), changing the fridge freezer and a lot of other variables.

I have 36 50W 12v Halogens ... how many should I replace with 240v LED's? (including buying GU10 connectors to replace the MR16's) ... and how many do I leave based on I have 38 12v Halogen bulbs and I am only renting for 2 years...??? Don't replace any of them...The return on investment is longer than 2 years.

Is it worth buying a new fridge freezer? Generally no...If the seals are fine and the fridge/freezer is cycling correctly. i.e not running permanently then leave it...again the return on investment is longer than the life of the fridge/freezer. An A rated appliance is much more expensive and only to save a few pennies per day.

To do this I need the electricity prices available to me and as this is potentially tied to my gas supplier I need that as well.

If you are planning to reduce your consumption of electricity then put lower figures into the comparison sites. Most households use around 3,300kWh per year so try entering 10% less than your current consumption and see what you could save. The tariff suggested will probably be the same but the savings won't be 10% on the cash figure due to standing charges and primary unit charges being higher...you will be saving on the low unit rate which reducing usage by 10% may only save 8% on the bill.

edit: I don't use any gas but have a gas supply. It's cheaper for me to have a gas tariff without a standing charge....i.e a gas bill of zero. (actually with Npower they pay me £55 per year to not use any gas).

MillicentBystander

HappyMJ wrote: »

If you are planning to reduce your consumption of electricity then put lower figures into the comparison sites. Most households use around 3,300kWh per year so try entering 10% less than your current consumption and see what you could save. The tariff suggested will probably be the same but the savings won't be 10% on the cash figure due to standing charges and primary unit charges being higher...you will be saving on the low unit rate which reducing usage by 10% may only save 8% on the bill.

edit: I don't use any gas but have a gas supply. It's cheaper for me to have a gas tariff without a standing charge....i.e a gas bill of zero. (actually with Npower they pay me £55 per year to not use any gas).

/Pedant alert/:D:D No, they don't. That is the OFGEM issued *average* household leccy consumptioin for all uk households so my speculation is very few will actually use 3,300kWh - some will use a little more, some will use much more, some will use a little less and some will use much less. It's really a bit of a nonsense figure in reality but I guess you have to start somewhere (and give a chance for the energy suppliers to maximise the price advantage at this mythical figure).

steve-L

My present calculations show switching the high use 50W halogens will pay back faster than a year.

I can buy 20 4.5W LED's for £64 + GU10 cabling for £12 (£76)
I then need to replace the 3x6W CFL with 3x12W in the floor lamp to add the lost lumens from the Halogen to 4.5W LED but I already have these.

UP = £0.115 (11.5p/kWh)
Bulbs = 20
kW-Hal = 0.05 (50W)
kW-Led = 0.0045 (4.5W)
Hr_day=8
Days/Yr = 360

0.0115x20x8x360x(0.05-0.0045) = £301.392/yr - £76 (bulb and GU10 cost) = £225.392/yr saving....

Or payback time = about 90 days (a quarter)
In reality I will need to add 3x 12w CFL in the lounge floor lamp instead of the present 5W if I use the 4.5W LED's but these I already have.

I also need to burn more gas in winter as I am losing the heat generated by the halogens (1kWh) - 15% at best for their efficiency ratio for heat/light .....

Please show how you calculated

Don't replace any of them...The return on investment is longer than 2 years.

Did you calculate this? Or do you just believe it......????
This is the whole point.... I am developing a model to actually calculate it not rely on secret calculations on a price comparison site.

Should I just trust statements like the ROI being longer than 2 years?

Sorry, I don't trust any calculation I can't repeat myself because experience shows again and again that people can't or are unwilling to do basic maths. This is how the energy companies (not to mention mobile phone networks and pretty much everyone else) manage to rip off the public

Now I have to go and reclaim my PPI payment.... oh wait.... I never had a PPI.... I wonder why?
Oh, I'll just go and pay off my credit card debt.... oops wait... in 25 years I have NEVER failed to pay my credit card off in full....

It is not rocket science... you just do the basic maths they taught at junior school.... its not even GCSE level maths....anyone can do it but first you have to get the numbers and write the equations....and mostly throw out any calculations made FOR YOU to show you how to switch.... (or not) or change your consumption profile.

wakeupalarm

Man_Overboard wrote: »

Follow Cardew's advice, and report back...

steve-L wrote: »

I followed it .... and what I get is a list of tariffs.

If this is 300 long and each one takes me a minute to get the information I need this is 5-6 hours of clicking to get a simple list.

Again, what I am looking for is a list of kWh prices and standing charges.

victor2 wrote: »

What would you do with the list of tariffs, once you'd got it?

Maybe the OP can compile a list of kWh prices and standing charges and then post it here, then the next time someone wants the same list we can save that person 5-6 hours of clicking and post the list or maybe suggest they use a comparison website instead.

steve-L

wakeupalarm wrote: »

Maybe the OP can compile a list of kWh prices and standing charges and then post it here, then the next time someone wants the same list we can save that person 5-6 hours of clicking and post the list or maybe suggest they use a comparison website instead.

If I was going to I would but its not economically viable for me to spend 5-6 hours to save potentially £200 or £300..

This information would:
1) Only be valid for my region (or its 300x12)
2) Be out of date very soon....

What I was hoping for was that this information was actually published somewhere (like Ofgem)....

victor2

steve-L wrote: »

UP = £0.115 (11.5p/kWh)
Bulbs = 20
kW-Hal = 0.05 (50W)
kW-Led = 0.0045 (4.5W)
Hr_day=8
Days/Yr = 360

0.0115x20x8x360x(0.05-0.0045) = £301.392/yr - £76 (bulb and GU10 cost) = £225.392/yr saving....

I would question the 8 hours per day, 360 days a year, unless you're up (or have the lights on) for most of the night. In the summer in the UK, sunrise is typically before 5am and sunset after 9pm.

My recent calculations showed that if I replaced my 9 20W halogen kitchen lights with 9 3W LED lights at £7 each and they were on for an average of 5 hours a day, 365 days a year, they would pay for themselves in 2.1 years, using my current electricity tariff.
That plus the fact that they are rated at a lower lumens than the existing bulbs made me think I'll wait until they become cheaper and brighter.

wakeupalarm

steve-L wrote: »

If I was going to I would but its not economically viable for me to spend 5-6 hours to save potentially £200 or £300..

This information would:
1) Only be valid for my region (or its 300x12)
2) Be out of date very soon....

What I was hoping for was that this information was actually published somewhere (like Ofgem)....

That is the whole point why no list exists, because as well as the 300 odd tariffs and 12 different regions you also have to take into account for each tariff, E7 and E10 meters, payment via DD/receipt of bill/ prepayment as well as dual fuel discounts/ warm home discounts, etc. The list wouldn't be a list but would be a book which would be out of date as soon as a new tariff was introduced and look at how often the energy companies introduce new tariff, every couple of months.

Just use a comparison website.