wrag group, appeal, jobcentre

dazza-mac

Hi,

I had to go to the jobcentre yesterday for a 'personal adviser interview'.

Made a complete ar** of myself - getting upset, slagging off Iain Duncan Smith bla bla bla.

I'm appealing the decision to place me in the wrag group and have submitted the form.

The lady said that I had to participate in work related activity.
I asked if that still applies if I'm appealing the decision and she said 'yes, if you don't your benefit will drop by £28 pw'.

Is this true, as my argument was that if I'm appealing the decision to place me in the wrag group - should my participation in work related activity be postponed until the appeal tribunal.

I ask, partly because I don't know if this is right and partly because if I participate - will they not just say at the tribunal, 'well, the decision to be placed in the wrag group was correct because they have been participating in work related activity'?

I don't want to refuse as I'm not certain of my facts on this. Any help appreciated

rogerblack

It's quite true.
If you do not participate, your benefit may be sanctioned.
Work related activity does _not_ pause during the wait for a tribunal.

The tribunal is not looking at your ability to do work-related-activity, though - for example - if you're claiming that you meet the 'cannot walk 50m' descriptor, and your work related acvitivity involves being on your feet all day, ...

Torry_Quine

Interesting answer rogerblack. When I went for my WFI the advisor said that as I was appealing to get into the support group that she would have told me not to come if she'd known. When I said I had asked when phoning about my appeal and told I had to go she said she would raise this so that the correct information was given out in future. I could attend voluntarily and if my appeal was lost and I remain in the WRAG then I would have to attend.

rogerblack

Torry_Quine wrote: »

Interesting answer rogerblack. When I went for my WFI the advisor said that as I was appealing to get into the support group that she would have told me not to come if she'd known. When I said I had asked when phoning about my appeal and told I had to go she said she would raise this so that the correct information was given out in future. I could attend voluntarily and if my appeal was lost and I remain in the WRAG then I would have to attend.

There are a couple of issues here.
'she would have told me not to come if she'd known.' - the advisor can defer the work-focussed interview if they choose.
This is on an individual basis, and can be for any reason. WFIs can also be done on the phone if appropriate.

There is no blanket 'If you are appealing, then WFIs are not done'.

The people advising about you having to go on the phone were also mostly correct. They perhaps should have raised that you can ask for the WFI to be deferred - but as above - it's up to the adviser.

'I could attend voluntarily and if my appeal was lost and I remain in the WRAG then I would have to attend.'

I suspect this is a miscommunication, or misunderstanding.

If you get into the support group, then you can voluntarily attend the work-related activity. See above - there isn't an automatic deferral of WFI on appeal.

Parva

I really don't understand why people place so much importance on getting into the magic 'support' group. Sure, it's worth an extra £4pw or whatever and you're sort of left alone (allegedly) but I was put into the WRAG after an ESA50 assessment (I wasn't asked to attend) and thus far I've heard nothing. I was tempted to appeal on my failure to get into the support group given my level of disability but decided against going through yet more paperwork and hassle, losing my leg and adapting to that has been enough on its own.

If and when they come to me (as I'm sure they will) then I will somehow get to the Jobcentre or wherever and with any luck they may realise that things are a little difficult for me but even if they don't, I'll jump through those hoops and tackle it as it comes. Anything the DWP chucks at me cannot replace the life that I lost with that leg and I refuse to let them get me down.

To re-iterate, if you truly are that unwell or unfit then being placed in the WRAG should not worry you at all.

miduck

Parva wrote: »

I really don't understand why people place so much importance on getting into the magic 'support' group.

The number of WRAG/ SG appeals increased considerably after the one year WRAG/ IB ESA rule came into place.

dazza-mac

Does anyone have any government written information regarding the rules on attending work related activity whilst appealing the decision? I've looked but can't find any.

All I can find is what you have to do if you're in the wrag group - but not if you're appealing it

dazza-mac

Torry_Quine wrote: »

Interesting answer rogerblack. When I went for my WFI the advisor said that as I was appealing to get into the support group that she would have told me not to come if she'd known. When I said I had asked when phoning about my appeal and told I had to go she said she would raise this so that the correct information was given out in future. I could attend voluntarily and if my appeal was lost and I remain in the WRAG then I would have to attend.

I have to say that's what I would've thought, that if you're appealing the decision then attending would be voluntary until the appeal was decided on. Has anyone seen any official wording on this

rogerblack

Parva wrote: »

I really don't understand why people place so much importance on getting into the magic 'support' group. Sure, it's worth an extra £4pw or whatever and you're sort of left alone (allegedly) but I was put into the WRAG after an ESA50 assessment (I wasn't asked to attend) and thus far I've heard nothing.

It depends.
If everyone in the process does as they should, and understands peoples medical conditions in detail, then yes, the process is not onerous.

The problem arises in several areas.
Firstly - attending WFIs.

For some, transport may be significantly difficult, or they may be unreliable.
For example, in my case, at times I am extremely fatigued, and getting to the WFI may be problematic, to the point I can't safely cross the road.

I have nobody to help, due to my condition I've lost contact with everyone.

If I don't make the WFI, I have to argue that I have 'good cause' to have missed it.
This relies on the person believing me, and believing my condition exists.

If I do get to the WFI, I then have to hope that the person believes me, that my condition exists, and has read the paperwork, so they do not give me inappropriate work-related activity.

Similarly, if I am referred onto the work program, I have to hope that the work program provider understands.

If an inappropriate work activity is assigned, then there is little room to appeal this.
You can ask the person to reconsider.
If they do not, and you can't manage the WRA, you are sanctioned, and then have to appeal that sanction.

Parva

rogerblack wrote: »

It depends.
If everyone in the process does as they should, and understands peoples medical conditions in detail, then yes, the process is not onerous.


For example, in my case, at times I am extremely fatigued, and getting to the WFI may be problematic, to the point I can't safely cross the road.

Yeah that's fair comment Roger and I can see why you would want to appeal a decision to be placed into the WRAG given your circumstances. In my case I have a fairly decent network of people able to help me attend and deal with the implications of being put into the WRAG if it becomes necessary. Being new to getting around on one leg was stressful enough without the implications of going to appeal in my case and I do wonder whether some get unduly stressed about the whole "WRAG" group thing.

As I said, if they want to drag me down there then one way or another I'll go. Indeed if they can help me get some sort of job I could do from home then I'd be delighted to go! As long as I could do the job from my bed on my bad days mind.

CharlieBilly

I am going through same thing and CAB said I must attend. I can see me being so stressed when I do go to job centre and probably have a panic attack

I have issues with social interaction, anxiety, and depression and this decision to get me off IB on to ESA WRG rather than ESA SG is making me even more ill, I just been to casualty tonight as a result of the stress, my blood pressure is high and chest is hurting along with stomach tight

Its no fair going though this when one is only going to get worse. I feel they just want rid of those who are genuine ill, I been ill since 1997 with plenty of letters from my GP confirming this and social avoidance