Banks...

arcon5

dalesrider wrote: »

Minor point ????

Banks are not party to CPA's. They have no idea how long any agreement is, or any other data. Only info they get is a CPA flag on the transaction, and thats if the retailer deem to add this.

A CPA is nothing like a DD. As banks are not party to any mandate.

In the op's case. Retailer sends request to bank for funds. Bank rejects on basis, not valid card. Retailer logs onto visa/mastercard system, should do this 1st to see if cancelled at bank end. Picks up new card details and requests funds again... Retailer gets money as they are using corrrect details.

The visa/mastercard systems are the MAJOR point here.

Do you have anything to backup this claim that the retailer has access to new card details including csv?
I think you'll find they charge their customers using a 'cross reference ' id.

Oh, and to add... a bank CAN cancel a CPA their end, despite refusing to in many cases

dalesrider

arcon5 wrote: »

Do you have anything to backup this claim that the retailer has access to new card details including csv?
I think you'll find they charge their customers using a 'cross reference ' id.

Oh, and to add... a bank CAN cancel a CPA their end, despite refusing to in many cases

Yep. I can back it up... I deal with these companies on a daily basis and know how the visa systems work.
How else do you think the companies get the new card details....
CSV? Do you mean CVV. If so then not needed for a CPA, or any other online transaction come to that if the retailer wants to avoid it.

We here lots of this banks can cancel a CPA.
Yes we can take a stop date.
Yes we can send a letter to the retailer merchant bank.
Upto the retailer if they take notice or not.....

Banks are stil working on systems to puts stops in place. As there is no mandate, unlike a DD. This is something that is not easy.
Would have been far easier if FSA had talked to Visa/Mastercard and told them what was required. As they provide the background systems and could put something in place.
While both do offer systems to allow banks to put a stop on some co's. Not ALL are listed. Especially these co's. Thats if they the companies take any notice of it... Which often the ydo not.

wealdroam

Here is a quote from a Guardian article entitled Continuous payments authority: know your rights*...

And here's the correct information [from the] Financial Services Authority "In most cases, regular payments can be cancelled by telling the company taking the payments. However, you have the right to cancel them directly with your bank or card issuer by telling it that you have stopped permission for the payments. Your bank or card issuer must then stop them – it has no right to insist that you agree this first with the company taking the payments." (Taken from the updated January 2012 version of the FSA's leaflet: Bank accounts – know your rights.)

Interestingly that article actually uses an example of a skin care cream subscription.
A hot topic in some other threads.



*I would've liked to quote directly from the FSA's leaflet but their website is down this weekend.

ILW

OP did not cancel though.

meer53

arcon5 wrote: »

Do you have anything to backup this claim that the retailer has access to new card details including csv?
I think you'll find they charge their customers using a 'cross reference ' id.

Oh, and to add... a bank CAN cancel a CPA their end, despite refusing to in many cases

The Visa system does allow retailers to obtain new card details when they try to process a debit and the previous number has changed. They don't need the CVV number or even the expiry date to process a transaction if it's a CPA payment.

It doesn't really matter what the FSA says, banks cannot at present stop CPA payments, those of us who deal with this type of dispute know this, but people who don't are just hell bent on telling others that banks "MUST" stop the payments. People can post the regulations as often as they like, it just doesn't work this way at the moment. Once the payment has debited, it can be disputed and a refund made.

If, when the regulations were drawn up, the FSA had asked the banks to put this system in place, it would have been much better. As it stands, all banks can do is to dispute the payments once they have debited.

Valli

dalesrider wrote: »

Yep. I can back it up... I deal with these companies on a daily basis and know how the visa systems work.
How else do you think the companies get the new card details....
CSV? Do you mean CVV. If so then not needed for a CPA, or any other online transaction come to that if the retailer wants to avoid it.

We here lots of this banks can cancel a CPA.
Yes we can take a stop date.
Yes we can send a letter to the retailer merchant bank.
Upto the retailer if they take notice or not.....

Banks are stil working on systems to puts stops in place. As there is no mandate, unlike a DD. This is something that is not easy.
Would have been far easier if FSA had talked to Visa/Mastercard and told them what was required. As they provide the background systems and could put something in place.
While both do offer systems to allow banks to put a stop on some co's. Not ALL are listed. Especially these co's. Thats if they the companies take any notice of it... Which often the ydo not.

This is gobbledegook...totally incomprehensible.:(

dalesrider

Valli wrote: »

This is gobbledegook...totally incomprehensible.:(

People that don't understand how it works, and don't want too find things incomprehensible.

|People have to remember that PSD came from the EU and the FSA then decided how it would work in the UK.
While they did have consultation with the banks. They did not talk to the companies (visa & mastercard) about this.
The FSA can spout all they like about how the banks can stop these payments, but they can't come up with a workable way of doing it.

A CPA is a agreement between a customer and a retailer. The bank has not part to play in the agreement. unlike a DD the bank recieves no notification of a CPA.
By the FSA telling banks that they must stop these payments. Simply because the customer says so. Is wrong.
If a customer has entered into a agreement with a retailer, then cancelling with the retailer is the way forward. If the retailer then ignores the request, then as has always been a customers right under visa regs. The money can be claimed ack.

InsideInsurance

arcon5 wrote: »

Do you have anything to backup this claim that the retailer has access to new card details including csv?
I think you'll find they charge their customers using a 'cross reference ' id.

If the merchant uses the card updater service then they do receive the new card number but not the CSV

The card updater service has not been well or widely implemented and so whilst in theory it was supposed to become mandatory it isn't. When subsequent payments are put through on a CPA merchant ID the number of checks done are much lighter but the merchant doesnt have the high transaction fees that this would normally attract.

Technically expiry date, CSV, AVS, 3D Secure etc are all optional, just as authorisation requests are just normally the merchant will be charged very high fees if they chose not to routinely do these.