Banks...

chcfan24

My bank renewed a subscription to a genealogy website on the 17th Oct using bank details which expired in August. I have contacted the bank by filling in one of their online complaints forms giving brief details of my complaint plus my contact details. They replied acknowledging receipt of my complaint and said they would contact me soon, they then emailed saying they don't respond to emails and gave me an 0845 phone number to ring them.

Do I have to wait for a reply from the bank before I am able to contact the ombudsman

DevCoder

Yes, you have to follow the banks complaints procdure before escalating it to FOS

maninthestreet

Yes........

InsideInsurance

Your bank doesnt renew a subscription, the geneology site renews it and requests payment from your bank under either a CPA or DD which your bank then pays.

Did you actually cancel the renewal with he geneology site themselves?

Is it a DD or CPA payment?

Use saynoto0870.com to find a better number to call your bank on.

A bank has 8 weeks to investigate any complaint before you can escalate it to the FOS and the FOS on average takes 9-12 months to resolve a complaint

If it is a DD and you did cancel the subscription with the geneology site then you tell your bank as such and tell them to do a refund under the direct debit guarantee (no need for a complaint)

If it is a CPA and you did cancel the subscription with the geneology site then inform your bank the subscription was cancelled and thus the payment is unauthorised and so a chargeback must be applied.

Obviously with either of the above, if you didnt cancel the subscription the money will still be owed to the geneology site, they may apply late payment fees and may decide to pass the matter to debt collectors or the courts.

Cancelling payment does NOT cancel subscriptions!

arcon5

So basically you entered in to a recurring contract for a service and forgot to cancel it. As a result the payment has been made to the company and you are blaming to bank.

Is this is?

chcfan24

Thank you for your replies. I pay the yearly subscription using my debit card, the details of which are held on the website under "my account". I didn't think I needed to cancel payment as the debit card details had expired in August, the bank had sent me a new debit card with new account number and yet the genealogy site was still able to claim over £150 from my bank using the old details, something is very wrong if they are allowed to do this don't you think.

Superjohn

It sound as though you were signed up with a continuous payment authority. This is similar to a direct debit and uses the card details provided to identify your account (for setting up the CPA) rather than make the payment itself so the card expiring won't make a difference as long as the source account still exists. If you search through these forums you'll find plenty of CPA threads particularly from people who have tried the trick of taking out payday loans, immediately reporting their payment cards 'lost' and then crying foul when their repayments go through anyway.

Unfortunately the situation is the same for you as it is for them. The CPA and the auto renewal will have been made clear in the terms and conditions of the genealogy site. You will have ticked a box confirming you had read, understood and agreed to those t&c's when you signed up to the site. By not cancelling the subscription you have agreed to the renewal amount being paid.

In short, you agreed to make the payment so your bank has paid it, this has all happened by legitimate means.

You could ask the site to cancel and refund as a goodwill gesture but they have no obligation to do so. The bank is not able to do anything about a payment that was made with your consent. The ombudsman will side with the bank.

The best you can do is learn from this. Read the terms and conditions, these types of arrangements are very common these days.

dalesrider

chcfan24 wrote: »

I didn't think I needed to cancel payment as the debit card details had expired in August, the bank had sent me a new debit card with new account number and yet the genealogy site was still able to claim over £150 from my bank using the old details, something is very wrong if they are allowed to do this don't you think.

Nothing wrong at all.

Both Visa & mastercard have systems in place that allow THE RETAILER to simply request the new details.

Your new card does not have new account details. It might have a new 16 digit number (but most renewalls are the same) the cvv will be diffrent. But a CPA does not require that info. In all honesty any online/phone trans can be made without it.

Have you complained to the genealogy site ???? As clearly they are in the right here as you did not cancel.....

There is a great saying.... Around the word Assume....
It makes a.... A55 of U & ME...

I can tell you now FOS won't do anything about the payment taken this year.

chcfan24

Thanks Superjohn, I believe what you have said to be true. I have had membership with this website for the past 6 years and no doubt would have renewed again this year if I had been asked. They will definately not take the money next year without asking me first, we live and learn.

arcon5

Both Visa & mastercard have systems in place that allow THE RETAILER to simply request the new details.

Minor point... the retailer can submit a CPA request to the bank which can often remain valid even after changing cards for the period setup for... but the banks won't provide the retailer with the new card details.

dalesrider

arcon5 wrote: »

Minor point... the retailer can submit a CPA request to the bank which can often remain valid even after changing cards for the period setup for... but the banks won't provide the retailer with the new card details.

Minor point ????

Banks are not party to CPA's. They have no idea how long any agreement is, or any other data. Only info they get is a CPA flag on the transaction, and thats if the retailer deem to add this.

A CPA is nothing like a DD. As banks are not party to any mandate.

In the op's case. Retailer sends request to bank for funds. Bank rejects on basis, not valid card. Retailer logs onto visa/mastercard system, should do this 1st to see if cancelled at bank end. Picks up new card details and requests funds again... Retailer gets money as they are using corrrect details.

The visa/mastercard systems are the MAJOR point here.