Paypal Scammed Please Help!

soolin

Dave543 wrote: »

I feel that placing the blame on the Sellers is not very fair though.

eBay force you to accept Paypal payments, otherwise they will pull your listing. (Unless you are selling Motor Vehicles)

Furthermore, if you take to advertise 'cash on collection' and not Paypal, you run the risk of your listing being pulled as well.

eBay are the problem - they do not warn you about these risks and most people only find out about them when it has happened to them.

Also, you do not even have to admit to have 'read' the T&C's, only that you agree to them. That, in itself, seems like a major omission.

Yes, the stuff may be clearly stated but if you do not know of the rules, or look for them (because you do not have to) you would not know about them.

Having said that, eBay do not want any of this to change as it will cost them money.

What about the huge great warning on the PayPal emails when you'd receive payment about postage requirements?

Dave543

soolin wrote: »

What about the huge great warning on the PayPal emails when you'd receive payment about postage requirements?

That tells you about Seller Protection.

However, there are instances where even if you followed their rules, you would not be covered by Seller Protection.

The Buyer always wins, and the Seller always loses to a chargeback and SNAD, regardless of meeting the Seller Protection criteria.

And as the Seller, you would be responsible to compensate Paypal for refunding the Buyer, despite doing everything correctly yourself.

Anarchist

The Buyer always wins, and the Seller always loses to a chargeback and SNAD, regardless of meeting the Seller Protection criteria.

This is true.

custardy

Dave543 wrote: »

That tells you about Seller Protection.

However, there are instances where even if you followed their rules, you would not be covered by Seller Protection.

The Buyer always wins, and the Seller always loses to a chargeback and SNAD, regardless of meeting the Seller Protection criteria.

And as the Seller, you would be responsible to compensate Paypal for refunding the Buyer, despite doing everything correctly yourself.

care to provide evidence on how you can meet the criteria and lose?

soolin

Being able to claim for faulty goods though is a right under UK law, PayPal cannot take away buyers rights just to keep sellers happy.

I think it shows a distinct misunderstanding of uk law and what benefits buyers are entitled to.

As for all the ' they can send a brick' nonsense and get a refund , yes buyers could, but then hurricane Sandy could divert and flood us all, or the sky fall in. These scenarios whilst not impossible are unlikely and does not mean that sellers should not still seek to protect themselves by following the very simple paypal requirements for seller protection. Why assume we are all going to be scammed so don't need to protect ourselves? Yes, bad things can happen and I'm sure some of us have met scammers, it doesn't mean we have to abandon all common sense

Dave543

custardy wrote: »

care to provide evidence on how you can meet the criteria and lose?

It is in their User Agreement:

"PayPal seller protection does not apply to Claims, Chargebacks and/or Reversals for the reason that the purchase was Significantly Not as Described (SNAD) nor for items that you deliver or are picked up in person."

Further: "11.5 If the payment is not covered by PayPal seller protection, PayPal will remove the funds from your Account and return the payment to the buyer. In addition, you will be responsible for PayPal’s Chargeback Fee, if applicable."

Obviously collection is exempt because there is no delivery involved. But what I am attempting to say with the above is that, even if you did post it - you would lose as Paypal claim it is ineligible for SNAD and chargebacks, even if you met the criteria.

soolin

Dave543 wrote: »

It is in their User Agreement:

"PayPal seller protection does not apply to Claims, Chargebacks and/or Reversals for the reason that the purchase was Significantly Not as Described (SNAD) nor for items that you deliver or are picked up in person."

Further: "11.5 If the payment is not covered by PayPal seller protection, PayPal will remove the funds from your Account and return the payment to the buyer. In addition, you will be responsible for PayPal’s Chargeback Fee, if applicable."

Obviously collection is exempt because there is no delivery involved. But what I am attempting to say with the above is that, even if you did post it - you would lose as Paypal claim it is ineligible for SNAD and chargebacks, even if you met the criteria.

The quote means that you cannot get automatic protection against a SNAD claim- which as per my earlier response is correct under UK law.
Think of it logically, if you were a buyer and received a broken vase when you were expecting a complete one, you would not be happy for paypal to over ride UK law and refuse yoru claim for a refund just because seller posted something and had seller protection.

Seller protection applies to claims where a seller fraudulently claims item has not arrived or where a bank chargeback is invoked.

Dave543

Soolin,

I have to agree with you - I agree that if you sign up, you are bound by the conditions. However, enforcing those conditions seems harder to do.

This fraud business should not be able to go on, but while eBay are reluctant to put a stop to it, and Paypal can claim pretty much anything under the sun to get their money back from you, I welcome the challenges to their 'systems'.

The major problem though is that Paypal are just a payment processor. If they were a bank, they would have to operate in line with UK law. As they are not, they do not and are hence allowed to do as they please.

If someone took your bank card, you would be given a new one. However, even if someone uses your Paypal account - they will not always reimburse you for your losses, as per their T&Cs that everyone agrees to.

soolin

Dave543 wrote: »

Soolin,

I have to agree with you - I agree that if you sign up, you are bound by the conditions. However, enforcing those conditions seems harder to do.

This fraud business should not be able to go on, but while eBay are reluctant to put a stop to it, and Paypal can claim pretty much anything under the sun to get their money back from you, I welcome the challenges to their 'systems'.

The major problem though is that Paypal are just a payment processor. If they were a bank, they would have to operate in line with UK law. As they are not, they do not and are hence allowed to do as they please.

If someone took your bank card, you would be given a new one. However, even if someone uses your Paypal account - they will not always reimburse you for your losses, as per their T&Cs that everyone agrees to.

Paypal are subject to the same regulations as banks. As long as you can show you have not been negligent (and banks require the same) you are protected. We have plenty of threads on here where people have been a little lax and allowed someone else access to their paypal account and have been reimbursed.

Alias_Omega

Top-Tip...

When selling with PayPal as Payment Method. Only offer one method of postage, which would be via a Tracked Method Only.

Don't give the option for 1st Class Mail etc, as its un-tracked and a buyer can ask for the item to be sent that way.

Tracking Items is for Seller Protection, Buyer Protection starts when the Buyer pays via PayPal..