disc' hearing - what if no lesson was taught?

Notmyrealname

WasntMe wrote: »

The 3rd warning, the hearing was chaired by THE boss, which is highly unusual at our place. This chap is from the old school of "you're fired" & kicking you off the grounds without going through the legal side of hearings etc.
When i received the letter from him, it stated i was on a warning, but it never stated at the end what the company expected from me with immediate effect (or any effect for that matter).

Seriously? You got a warning in which you'll be told what you did wrong and you need someone to tell you what to do or not to do to remedy what you did wrong?

And you're still in employment?

WasntMe_2

Thanks for putting it without attitude skint. Fair point.

denla wrote: »

Isn't it obvious? You're now trying to avoid getting disciplined/sacked on a technicality. It's like you're not sorry and just want to target certain words on the disciplinary letter to try to walk off. You screwed up by bringing the company into disrepute. Face the consequences like a man.

Think about it for a minute - who in their right mind is going to lay down & allow themselves to be sacked.

And furthermore, who are YOU to say that i am not sorry? You're nobody to say that, end of!!

When i see how it's effected family members - the potential consequences of this, yes, i am genuinely sorry for what i have done & yes it genuinely wont happen again ............. but i guess i'm not sorry & i guess it will happen again. I don't know why though, oh wait yes i do ...... because DENLA said so, so that must make it so.

I am trying to find out answers to questions to try & help my situtation. Nothing wrong with that.




Oh & how did the Sainsbury's episode go?

You lecture me, but anyone in their right mind should know that if they start on January 1st & use 4 weeks worth of allowance, they can't then leave February 1st & get away with all that paid leave they haven't accrued.

No need to play the high & mighty role. Attitude isn't necessary.

kitschkitty

I think the people who have commented in this thread have already answered your question indirectly.

So if you want the direct answer it is: I would not be so stupid as to make these types of mistakes 3 times in the same job, and hypothetically if I found myself in this position I would not try to use the company (or senior employees) personal behaviour to justify my behaviour, as I understand the difference between what goes on in a workplace and what IS actually acceptable behaviour in a workplace (the 2 sadly not always being the same) and if you needed the bosses to be any more direct than they have been in dealing with your misdemeanors, you may need to present them with medical evidence of the condition that prevents you from understanding in the way "normal" people do i.e evidence of a learning difficulty or autistic spectrum illness. Then you can have in place ways of working/communicating to avoid future incidents.

If you have no such illness or special needs then frankly you just need to stop acting like a plank.

denla

WasntMe wrote: »

Thanks for putting it without attitude skint. Fair point.

Think about it for a minute - who in their right mind is going to lay down & allow themselves to be sacked.

Everyone who makes a mistake should accept the consequences. Your mistake was not a petty matter you've overlooked or underperforming at work due to personal circumstances. You chose to make defamatory remarks about your supervisor on a social media website for all to see. We call that public humiliation of the supervisor and the company. You also did this after you've previously been warned.

WasntMe wrote: »

And furthermore, who are YOU to say that i am not sorry? You're nobody to say that, end of!!

Your attitude here shows you're not sorry.

WasntMe wrote: »

When i see how it's effected family members - the potential consequences of this, yes, i am genuinely sorry for what i have done & yes it genuinely wont happen again ............. but i guess i'm not sorry & i guess it will happen again. I don't know why though, oh wait yes i do ...... because DENLA said so, so that must make it so.

Not because I said so. Because you screwed up, again. If someone makes the same mistake on more than one occasion I do think he'll do it again. I'm sure no employer will wait on the off chance you might make this mistake again.

WasntMe wrote: »

I am trying to find out answers to questions to try & help my situtation. Nothing wrong with that.

Nothing wrong with that. Problem is the answers aren't what you're wanting and you're making a fuss because you don't like being told what's more likely to happen to you after the disciplinary meeting.

WasntMe wrote: »

Oh & how did the Sainsbury's episode go?

You lecture me, but anyone in their right mind should know that if they start on January 1st & use 4 weeks worth of allowance, they can't then leave February 1st & get away with all that paid leave they haven't accrued.

Completely irrelevant.

WasntMe wrote: »

No need to play the high & mighty role. Attitude isn't necessary.

You're the one with the attitude. You insult your supervisor on Facebook, think there's nothing wrong with it, and later on say yes you know it's wrong but you still try to walk off without facing any consequences. Are you that naive or just arrogant?

WasntMe_2

kitschkitty wrote: »

I think the people who have commented in this thread have already answered your question indirectly.

skintandscared answered it very well, which suits me, yet the thread goes on....?

I would not be so stupid as to make these types of mistakes 3 times in the same job,

And i wont be.

Thing is, you can tell a skim reader a mile off. Every response i've replied to i've read in full, but i can tell when others haven't done the same.
Why? Because where have i said i have committed this offence 3 times? I haven't ... because i haven't.

as I understand the difference between what goes on in a workplace and what IS actually acceptable behaviour in a workplace (the 2 sadly not always being the same)

And i get this now.

Sure, you can join SOME others & go ahead with attitude as to "you should've grasped this beforehand" to make yourself feel better, but it doesn't matter. I get it, i get what you're saying. I keep getting asked why it isn't sinking in, yet why isn't it sinking in when i say to you that i get it now? Those with attitude keep coming & repeating those before them. It doesn't make it sink in any more. Or is it a case of "my turn now"?

If you have no such illness or special needs then frankly you just need to stop acting like a plank.

*sigh* And i have.
Since this 2nd episode (yes, 2nd, not 3rd, not 4th (God knows where some folk are getting their numbers from - it'll probably 500th time by the end of next week according to some on here) 2nd!!!), i haven't done anything like this at all. Why? Because I GET IT!!!!!

The last day i was in work, some lad was slating the supervisor big time & tried to get me to do the same. I told them that i can't do that, i can't discuss the supervisor or his work levels & have no comment to make.
Proof enough i get it!!!!!!!!!
A lad damaged something by being careless. Normally i would've gone on facebook & given him a bit of stick for being blind (he drove into something), but i didn't. Why? Because I GET IT!!!!!

Too late? Maybe. Hopefully not. But better late than never!

denla

WasntMe wrote: »

A lad damaged something by being careless. Normally i would've gone on facebook & given him a bit of stick for being blind (he drove into something), but i didn't. Why? Because I GET IT!!!!!

Too late? Maybe. Hopefully not. But better late than never!

I suppose you've made some effort here, but it still shows you're not an employee worth keeping. You witnessed a colleague stupidly driving into something causing damage to I'm guessing company property? Driving like that is also dangerous. What if he drove into you or someone else? Normally you'd mouth off at him on Facebook? Good grief. Normally you should have reported a dangerous incident like that to your supervisor/manager immediately.

kitschkitty

I didn't skim read I meant these types of mistakes as in mistakes that have led to disciplinary action/warnings.
And in your very 1st post you stated:

In my 13+ years service i've had 3 warnings.

Once is a mistake, twice could be seen as bad luck 3 times is a bad habit!

WasntMe_2

denla wrote: »

Your attitude here shows you're not sorry.

And how are you qualified to say that? Tell me.
Because i talk back to you means i'm not sorry to my employers for what i've done?
Yet if i bow down to you with yes denla, no denla, 3 bags full....that would mean that i am sorry?

Talk about wild accusations.

Not because I said so. Because you screwed up, again. If someone makes the same mistake on more than one occasion I do think he'll do it again. I'm sure no employer will wait on the off chance you might make this mistake again.

Yes, but the question is WHY did i do it again?
The answer is, well, i guess the answer is whatever you say it is, but the actual answer is because i misunderstood the lesson first time round, resulting in the 2nd offence. I totally get it NOW, therefore it wont happen a 3rd time, as i just explained to the poster before you

But i guess this is all lies because it's not what YOU want to hear.

Nothing wrong with that. Problem is the answers aren't what you're wanting and you're making a fuss because you don't like being told what's more likely to happen to you after the disciplinary meeting.

I don't like attitude for no reason. I don't come to anyone on here with attitude. Others have responded without it, so why are you unable to do so? Right from the get go i saw the attitude in you - why? skintandscared told me something i don't want to hear, yet did it without attitude, so that does away with your argument i'm afraid.

Completely irrelevant.

You play the high & mighty role, yet you're not perfect yourself.

You're the one with the attitude. You insult your supervisor on Facebook, think there's nothing wrong with it, and later on say yes you know it's wrong but you still try to walk off without facing any consequences. Are you that naive or just arrogant?

I am now, because there's no need for your attitude that has been consistent right from the start & i've had enough of it, topped off by you telling me i'm not something when i am when you're nobody to say.

WasntMe_2

denla wrote: »

I suppose you've made some effort here, but it still shows you're not an employee worth keeping. You witnessed a colleague stupidly driving into something causing damage to I'm guessing company property? Driving like that is also dangerous. What if he drove into you or someone else? Normally you'd mouth off at him on Facebook? Good grief. Normally you should have reported a dangerous incident like that to your supervisor/manager immediately.

And so the assumptions & accusations continue.

Here's some advice for you ....... why don't you calm yourself down for a minute & entertain the fact that i may have actually taken the day off work that day & when i came back the day after the incident & saw the damage & then asked my supervisor the story & got told the story & the chap wasn't in work for me to stick.....

Understand?

As i say ... NORMALLY i would've called him blind & careless etc. But i didn't.
If i'd actually SEEN it, it'd be a different matter.


But hey, by not giving the lad stick, yes i repeat ... by NOT giving the lad stick, you throw this at me....

but it still shows you're not an employee worth keeping.

So as far as you're concerned, what chance do i have? None. I could be world employee of the year & still have no chance as far as you're concerned.

kitschkitty wrote: »

I didn't skim read I meant these types of mistakes as in mistakes that have led to disciplinary action/warnings.
And in your very 1st post you stated:



Once is a mistake, twice could be seen as bad luck 3 times is a bad habit!

Then that's my mistake. Sorry (don't let denla tell you i'm not), i got the wrong end. I thought you meant i had committed the same offence 3 times.

thorsoak

WasntMe wrote: »

What i'm saying is, i realise what my role was in the first incident is wrong.
Whilst similar, the two cases are not the SAME. If they were then the company would be talking about me bringing them into disrepute again, which they're not. This was the lesson i took - don't badmouth the company & i didn't.

I thought this current case at the time was ok because it goes on in person. If i was talking behind someones back & it was out of the ordinary, then i would expect them to be upset. I knew the other chap would be ok about it & they are. They laughed about it & told me not to worry as they don't care because they say the same to me.
In addition, i thought it was ok because this has been going on for years (in person, not facebook), sometimes in front of managers who have not once said anything. In fact, the managers also come out with these remarks themselves.

So based on all of this i thought the current incident was 'ok'.

I now realise that for me at least, it's not ok to do this. The managers still continue to do this & other workers still continue to do this, in person & on facebook & nothing has been said to them.

There's nothing i can do about that though, i can only concentrate on myself & realise that it's not ok for ME to do this.


Not even to talk about procedures? I wouldn't be referring to offences, but the procedures (such as the first 2 told me what they expected, the 3rd didn't).


I left school, went into working life & was hard headed, constantly challenging the system. I had much growing up to do. Some members on here will say i still do, but let them say it. My warnings were for not carrying out instructions - as i say, i was hard headed.

I then realised i would never win by fighting the system. You either accept it or move on, so i calmed down & began to accept things (other than blatant taking the piddle out of me, which became rare).

This change in character was noted by the GM & one of the bosses who commented to me how they had seen a change & it was good to see, keep it up.

And i did, for years. Kept my nose clean for years. Until last month. Just poor judgement.

In other words, you have no defence. Have you thought about admitting you were in the wrong and apologising?