The wording of a disciplinary letter..??

Uncertain

guardianangel wrote: »

Not necessary, due to issues these days the company could be liable if the employee does not get a job due to bad references.

They could only be liable if they say something that is not true or is deliberately misleading.

There is a growing paranoia in this area, a bit like printing "Caution, contents may be hot, on a coffee cup!

denla

guardianangel wrote: »

Not necessary, due to issues these days the company could be liable if the employee does not get a job due to bad references. This is why most companies do not make comments on sickness, performance etc. Generally at this point the business wants the employee to leave and will leave the reason as resigned. I have worked in a number of sectors for different companies and this is the general process.

If an employee has been sacked and it's mentioned on the reference, there's nothing the employee can do. It's factual and true. No company will be liable if any employee becomes unemployable due to bad references for getting sacked for gross misconduct.

WasntMe_2

I'll respond a bit more when I get access to a PC, but I'm just reading this on my phone & notice nobody has actually said what to do if they keep cutting me off in the meeting when I'm trying to answer.

By the way things seem to be, I imagine they're well within their rights to cut me off so that my responses are essentially moulded to whatever they want me to say & that there's nothing I can do about this..??

paddyrg

You will have witnesses that you are not being allowed to speak, and you refuse to sign the minutes of the meeting unless all of your points are made. They are unlikely to want any outcome challenged on procedural grounds, that gets expensive and drawn-out.

Sambucus_Nigra

WasntMe wrote: »

I'll respond a bit more when I get access to a PC, but I'm just reading this on my phone & notice nobody has actually said what to do if they keep cutting me off in the meeting when I'm trying to answer.

By the way things seem to be, I imagine they're well within their rights to cut me off so that my responses are essentially moulded to whatever they want me to say & that there's nothing I can do about this..??

You do what adults do and say 'if you would let me finish'?

guardianangel

WasntMe wrote: »

I'll respond a bit more when I get access to a PC, but I'm just reading this on my phone & notice nobody has actually said what to do if they keep cutting me off in the meeting when I'm trying to answer.

By the way things seem to be, I imagine they're well within their rights to cut me off so that my responses are essentially moulded to whatever they want me to say & that there's nothing I can do about this..??

They won't cut you off, the whole point of a disciplinary meeting is to allow you to out your side of the story across. If they do cut you just politely ask to allow to continue to finish answering the question. You may want to make a mental note of this so that it is recorded in the minutes. If at a later date you want to argue this as in the meeting was not fair as they wouldn't not let you speak then the minutes will help support this. I would ask to see the minutes before the end of the meeting and make sure they are an accurate account of the meeting. If you need to make a change, armaments it there and then and then sign. And also ask for a copy.

WasntMe_2

Regarding the minutes, or indeed ANY minutes from any meeting or disciplinary i've ever been involved in - i've never been asked to sign them.
Most of the time i don't even see them. They just take notes & that's it, never seen by me. The past twice i've been given a copy of the minutes as part of the evidence, but never been asked to sign them.

Also, who's minutes is the set that can be used? Obviously the company will have someone recording what's being said, but so will i. If they match up then fair enough, but if they don't, is the notes from my witness totally disregarded?

To respond to what's been said...

Yes, it's the investigation minutes i disagree with. I have no proof myself, so it's just an accusation i suppose, but i believe the person taking the minutes from the investigation has a strong dislike of myself, moreso than others (as in i think some others will be annoyed at what i've done, but this person has a total dislike of me & is like a shark once it's sniffed blood). This can be the only reason i can think of as to why the minutes are slightly twisted to put me in an even worse light - but unfortunately, i'd never be able to prove that this person has a total dislike of me.

guardianangel wrote: »

I'm not your managers or know the culture of your company so it's hard to say.

This is the thing. Internal politics - which is why i've got to be so super careful what i say & do. I'm very aware that what i say may be taken the wrong way & not how i mean it - & then they'll include this in fuelling their determination to hit me with a warning or sacking.


As for they wont cut me off - they have done in the past. In the past i've just asked if i can finish what i'm saying ... & then just get interrupted again later on for me to ask if i can finish what i'm saying again & it goes on. I don't interrupt them.

I'm taking a work colleague which obviously leaves that persons department short. Apparently the head of that dept has been told they will be a "man down", but it wont be for long as this meeting wont take long. Perhaps i'm reading too much into it, but first thing that comes to mind there is "good morning, please sit down, right you're sacked, get back up & collect your stuff, goodbye". Obviously not as quick as that - i've got to speak, but essentially that.

WasntMe_2

Out of interest, do they have to give you any sort of notice if they sack you?

Keeping it totally relevant (because i imagine if i walk up & plant the boss on his backside, there isn't going to be a whole lot of notice given beyond being turfed out myself).

I know if i leave that i'm to give them 1 weeks notice. I don't know under what circumstances they're to give me notice & whether this applies to a dismissal of this nature.

Not that it would matter greatly ATEOTD as i'd be out of a job either way, but an additional weeks pay or two weeks pay, whatever, is better than £0.

denla

WasntMe wrote: »

Out of interest, do they have to give you any sort of notice if they sack you?

Keeping it totally relevant (because i imagine if i walk up & plant the boss on his backside, there isn't going to be a whole lot of notice given beyond being turfed out myself).

I know if i leave that i'm to give them 1 weeks notice. I don't know under what circumstances they're to give me notice & whether this applies to a dismissal of this nature.

Not that it would matter greatly ATEOTD as i'd be out of a job either way, but an additional weeks pay or two weeks pay, whatever, is better than £0.

If they sack you it's with immediate effect and you'll be sactioned from applying for JSA income support for... well, really depends, but you'll receive no money for a long time.

paddyrg

If it looks like you're out on your backside (and I am not convinced it is yet), then you could always suggest a way you can go quietly, working out a week's effective notice. Likely they don't want you back on the floor if they know you're out in a week, so you may effectively take some of the holiday owed to you, and go home and start looking for the next role