The wording of a disciplinary letter..??

WasntMe_2

Before we get started, can we just stick to the facts & avoid all the "you've been silly" talk, as 1) it's not constructive & 2) i realise this without it being said for the 1000th time.

Some of you will know, some not, that i'm facing a disciplinary hearing next week. I am already on a (written) warning.

I was on the phone to my union who said i could very well be facing the sack as a result. I told them a section of the disciplinary hearing summons letter which states:

"At the end of this meeting, you may receive a warning as per the company disciplinary procedure"

The union then said that it sounds like i'm very lucky based on that line from the letter & that when it's all over with, i'll be on a final written warning. They advised to go in head down & hands up & grovel like mad (which was the course of action i was going to take anyway, especially considering i genuinely am sorry about this mistake).


As i've found over the years, it's not always best to swallow what the first person tells you, which is why i've come here to see what others think.

In your experience, does it also sound to you that i will be very lucky or not?
Obviously if i swagger into the meeting with my chest out & give them attitude, i would expect them to go to town on me (rightly so) & that'd be me gone, but i've made enough silly mistakes to last me a lifetime & don't need another one.


I just hope to god they see the disciplinary process as a way of improving staff & not as a punishment method & that they genuinely see i'm sorry & regret what i did & that i don't need a further warning or sacking to get this message home.


EDIT: I was planning on writing an apology letter/statement, saying how i am sorry, why i thought it was acceptable at the time & how i realise i was sadly mistaken & now realise that it is not acceptable, as well as the course of action i intend on taking to rectify this situation so that it never happens again (such as NOT commenting on ANYTHING work related, no matter how minor it may seem & no joking with co-workers which may be seen as innapropriate by others).

If anyone here has any spare time to check this once i've done it to see whether i've not put my foot in it then please feel free to comment & i will send you via PM as i'd rather that bit wasn't on an open forum.

jobbingmusician

I think you are lucky. Certainly if I send out a disciplinary letter which may result in charges of GM, I have to say so in the letter. It sounds as if they are NOT considering GM in your case.

Happy to check your letter.

gibson123

You seem genuinely remorseful, but be careful it doesn't come across as "sorry I got caught" but does come across as " it just went too far and I am sorry I said what I said on a public forum".

But if you are generally a good worker and don't tend to rock the boat and upset people anyway you have a good chance of scraping this through. it is so borderline that if the company wants rid anyway they could probably do so.

WasntMe_2

jobbingmusician wrote: »

I think you are lucky. Certainly if I send out a disciplinary letter which may result in charges of GM, I have to say so in the letter.

This is what the union lady said. She also asked if i had a copy of the company disciplinary procedure - i don't. I daren't ask for one right now as they may see it as me being smart/challenging them.

Happy to check your letter.

Thanks. It's a bit late today, but i'll have it drafted up by Friday at the latest i think.

gibson123 wrote: »

You seem genuinely remorseful, but be careful it doesn't come across as "sorry I got caught" but does come across as " it just went too far and I am sorry I said what I said on a public forum".

This is my worry.
Thankfully the hearing is being chaired by someone who i think may entertain the idea of me being sorry. I was once in a meeting & the woman who conducted the meeting the other day was like a shark going for blood. I apologised & was really sorry for whatever it was (i can't remember what it was, but IIRC it was a total misunderstanding, which many were guilty of, including myself but i got the sole blame for (& no i'm not just saying that)).
This woman tore a strip off me - NO NO NO, you're not sorry, you're not sorry at all, you did this on purpose etc etc. Totally untrue statements, but her comments were fuelling her barbs & they kept flowing. The chap who's going to be chairing the disciplinary had to step in & point out that yes, i actually was sorry, it was clearly obvious. The woman just sighed & stopped. Unfortunately she's a boss & my view is she has a big time dislike of me & in fact my whole department, but particularly me.

But if you are generally a good worker and don't tend to rock the boat and upset people anyway you have a good chance of scraping this through. it is so borderline that if the company wants rid anyway they could probably do so.

Here's where it's yes & no.

I've been there some time. I get on with the job & do it well. Others have had wages deducted through damages, some of them quite a lot - i've never had any wages deducted through damages as i'm a careful worker. Our own delivery drivers have commented how i'm the only one they can trust to load their vehicles 1) accurately & 2) safely, as others will just throw stuff on any old how.
But all this can be forgotten once someone has you in their sights.

I will readily admit that when i left school, i was hard headed & confrontational. This went on for a few years (before people were warned so easily) & i got a bit of a reputation. Some of it was their doing also, but i readily admit i was hard headed, always challenging things.
Then one day something clicked in my head & i just stopped trying to fight the system. I had matured (despite what's recently happened). They didn't notice it at first, but one day i was talking to the woman who was going for blood i mentioned earlier & i said how i've tried to make a conscious effort to change. She said she was glad & that it had been noticed.
Later on that day the chap who will be chairing the disciplinary came out & commented about my earlier conversation & again said it had been noted & that i am to keep it up.

From that point on for a few years everything was fine. Our relationship was improving all the while. The only person who i felt (rightly or wrongly) didn't give me a chance was THE boss. It seemed to me, that he had signed me off as a troublemaker & would never be otherwise, despite my change & despite other directors & general managers saying they had seen a change in me for the better.

Then came the 2 facebook incidents which have been the only (but serious all the same) incidents in years.

I hope they see this as nothing more than a silly blip & they take into account the progress i had made over the previous years as i would like to get back to that point with the company.

WasntMe_2

I sure hope not I think i have or had (probably binned it now) an old old copy of the procedure, but they changed a lot of stuff a few years ago & i think i may have binned it then when everything got changed & re-written.


4 days of worrying about this When i worry a lot i get terrible migraines & i've already had one each day this week from constant fretting over this.


I need to see them tomorrow to tell them i've received the letter & say who i want as a witness.
Whilst there, do you think it'd be a good/bad idea to ask them whether i am looking at being sacked - as i am worrying about it that much that it's making me feel unwell during the day, especially towards night & i then have trouble sleeping (this isn't an exaggeration either btw).

WasntMe_2

I've found what i had from the old handbook. I don't know whether this section got revised at all. I know portions did, but i'm not sure whether the entire thing did or not. Anyway, this is all i have to go on, which is about 6 years old IIRC...



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WasntMe_2

jobbingmusician wrote: »

Happy to check your letter.

PM sent your way. Didn't want to leave it until Friday so fired off a draft now.

paddyrg

Gosh, what a rough situation. My suggestion for what it is worth is to not ask if you are facing dismissal (as it is down to how they feel the charge is - serious or gross misconduct), but to just play everything very simply/straight. Take someone you can rely upon into that meeting, and just state, once and without going OTT, that... you are deeply remorseful for your actions and you never meant to cause this much trouble for them or yourself. Reflect briefly on the fact that you know you used to be a hothead when you started, but hope they will agree you have grown up and for years have worked accurately and efficiently, with no damage rate. You regret this mistake, know you cannot rectify it simply, so the best you can do is to take the warning like a man/on the chin, carry on working well and not letting anything like that happen again.

Personally, I suspect you'll get a written warning if they take good work into account - they would have sacked you on the spot if it was a clear-cut case of gross misconduct. Words to the effect of the above paragraph are what they need to see - adult behaviour and contrition, with the unwritten expectation that you will continue to work hard and well for them for more years to come, and not be any trouble.

wrightk

WasntMe wrote: »

I sure hope not I think i have or had (probably binned it now) an old old copy of the procedure, but they changed a lot of stuff a few years ago & i think i may have binned it then when everything got changed & re-written.


4 days of worrying about this When i worry a lot i get terrible migraines & i've already had one each day this week from constant fretting over this.


I need to see them tomorrow to tell them i've received the letter & say who i want as a witness.
Whilst there, do you think it'd be a good/bad idea to ask them whether i am looking at being sacked - as i am worrying about it that much that it's making me feel unwell during the day, especially towards night & i then have trouble sleeping (this isn't an exaggeration either btw).

I feel what your saying. ive been suspended for almost a month now and have had almost a month of sleepless nights and stress knowing it was something i didnt do. for me its all going to be over today as i have my hearing. regardless of the outcome im confident ill come away without a tar on my name thanks to the help of people on this forum (particularly jobbingmusician).

Another point to mention which may or may not have been said; when i received my suspension letter it stated; you may be given a warning, final warning or your employment may be terminated blah blah. In my hearing letter it has been revised to, you may receive a warning/final written warning. no mention of termination. that usually gives you an idea of what line they are persuing

denla

Like I said, your supervisor is in no position to help you. Just because he tells them this goes on all the time and you call each other names, doesn't make it right. He's probably going to get disciplined as well now that he's involved himself in the investigation.

You'll probably get sacked for initially arguing with HR instead of admitting your fault. Now they'll think you're just grovelling not because you are sincerely sorry but because you are doing what's smart to keep your job.

WasntMe_2

denla wrote: »

Just because he tells them this goes on all the time and you call each other names, doesn't make it right.

I know this now. Hopefully i haven't learned too late.

He's probably going to get disciplined as well now that he's involved himself in the investigation.

No, he actually isn't.

In addition to this, i discovered today that a co-worker, who is known for being a bit of a crawler where the boss is concerned, also recently slated my supervisor off on facebook. It has been reported that the boss "spies" on staff facebook accounts & i've recently found out how this has been possible (duplicate accounts would be a brief description - & "spies" is not my wording, it's what i've been told). Anyway, the boss would've had access to my co-workers remarks & nothing has been done about it.
I'm not interested in getting others into bother, and i know that other people aren't my concern & i've been a fool, but at the same time i can't help but think - well why hasn't he been pulled in for the same?

You'll probably get sacked for initially arguing with HR instead of admitting your fault. Now they'll think you're just grovelling not because you are sincerely sorry but because you are doing what's smart to keep your job.

I can only hope that my employer is nothing like you then & instead is ready to entertain the idea that an employee may actually regret their actions & be sorry for what they've done & how it has affected a range of people.