Vodafone and phantom contracts

Mark_K._Smith

I've just had a rather interesting exchange with a Voda representative via Chat. I like Chat because you get the full record of the conversation - unlike the phone call. I had a shockingly high phone bill - over £450 which was because my wife had made an unusual number of long calls after a health incident with an elderly Aunt. She had a 600 minute limit per month and shot well over that and then the lovely people at Voda slapped huge charges - and give you no notification whatsoever of 'unusual activity on your account' unlike pretty much every other 'utility' bill. There really is no point fighting with them over this – it’s sharp practice - rotten customer service and it feels like a mugging - but many of you will have had this happen and Voda default to the 'you should have checked your account' defence - which is true - but not what I have to do with my bank, mortgage, water, electricity, gas etc etc - all of whom look after me and don't mug me. BUT that's not the issue I have uncovered - which is rather more serious.

I have 4 phones with Voda, 3 are 'out of contract' 1 not until next year. The three that are out of contract include my wife’s one with the massive bill - two of the others are my kids phones and one a data stick which I don't often use these days. So I asked to cancel them with immediate effect. Now the chap on the chat said I had to give 30 days notice. ‘Why’ I said - you've already told me I'm out of contract. Ah he said 'you have a verbal contract'. Now this is where the waters get very murky indeed. They do not have a verbal contract with me. They can't because I don't use any of the phones and therefore they cannot have spoken to me. So they started to pretend to have called me and set one up (on 3 devices), they didn't of course. But by pretending to do this they can then say you have a 'verbal contract' and charge you for 30 days cancellation (for these three devices that would be over £70 for me). I think that is almost certainly illegal. And if they do this across the board this is millions of £ of revenues gained from phantom contracts. I have the full transcript of the conversation – a few extracts appear below.


Has anyone else had this happen – if this is institutional contract extension with no contract then this has a horrible smell......


You: I wish to cancel the out of contract phones
You: BUT your colleague informed me they had a 30 day cancellation policy
You: I want to see that policy please
Bhavya: Terms and conditions
You: I want to see the one I signed please
Bhavya: You can refer to point number 11 Ending the agreement
You: The one I agreed to
Bhavya: You have taken the deal over the phone, so its a verbal agreement
You: NO I HAVE NOT
You: how could I
You: the contract ended
You: you carried on billing
You: give me evidence of a verbal/written contract please
Bhavya: I'm afraid I
Bhavya: I'll not be able to provide the verbal agreement copy
You: can you tell me the name of your staff member that called me,
You: the date and time
Bhavya: Yes, give me a minute whilst I check the details.
You: the call you must have made to get me to agree a verbal contract
You: (by the way I don't use any of these phones - they are all used by my family) so you simply cannot have spoken to me
You: because you don't have my number
You: can't find any evidence can you? Because you did not make the call
You: because you cannot have done so
Bhavya: For the number 07780****** , you upgraded on 26/08/2010 at 18:33
Bhavya: The agent name was Ismath Arshad
You: and what number did Ismath call please
Bhavya: On the same day, you upgraded the order 2 numbers too
You: to the same person
You: in the same call
You: which number did Ismath call please
Bhavya: I cannot confirm the number on which the call was made.
You: why not
Bhavya: We will not be able to get that details.
You: why not
You: because it's not true
Bhavya: It's not stored on the system.
You: that's untrue
You: you record all these details
You: you cannot have done this because I the account holder do not use any of these phones
You: this is illegal behaviour
You: you are enforcing 30 day cancellation terms after contract have terminated without the account holders permission
Bhavya: If you wish I can cancel the number 0783******, 07765******, 0778****** taking a 30 day notice.
You: no I do not want a 30 day notice period
Bhavya: I'll not be able to cancel the numbers with immediate effect.
You: you have to provide evidence of a contract signed Bhavya
You: you cannot do that because it did not happen
Bhavya: As mentioned the contract was taken over the phone. So signed contract will never be possible.
You: no it was not
You: you could not have done this
You: you do not have my phone number
You: you cannot claim a contract when one does not exist and you have no evidence that one does
You: this is illegal
Bhavya: I'll not be able to cancel the numbers immediately. What I will do is forward your concern to my Manager for a call back.
You: yes I suggest you do that
You: but which number will you call Bhavya
Bhavya: You will get a call back within next 24-48 hours to get this resolved as per your satisfaction.
You: which number will you call Bhavya


etc etc - no call yet.


[insert obsenity here ****ers]

Silk

When a contract matures it goes to a 30 day rolling contract ...thsi means you have to give 30 days notice you wish to cancel.
Standard practice on all networks I'm afraid and will have all been there in the T&C's when you took out the contracts

PHARR

It seems Vodafone are at it again, Iv experienced nothing but terrible customer service from them since i switched from o2 to Voda.

I don't know what it is, and i don't want to sound offensive but majority of the staff are terrible English spoken, do Voda even care when they employ these people? Causes more trouble and solutions.

I had my own little rant there sorry, i feel your pain i too had a run in where one employee offered me a deal in which i asked if i could call back when i thought about it. Later called back, basically got called a liar, 25 minutes later i got the deal i was offered... The employee was terrible and didn't have a clue what she was doing and left me frustrated.

Mark_K._Smith

A contract is required against which to roll, the issue is not the 30 days - it's the phantom contract - you can't just pretend you have one!? And they have done just that - made it up, M

grumbler

Mark_K._Smith wrote: »

...not what I have to do with my bank, mortgage, water, electricity, gas etc etc - all of whom look after me and don't mug me. ....

Maybe bank, but I don't see what "mortgage, water, electricity, gas" have to do with your problem. I think utility companies take the readings 2 times a year in the best case scenario. Are you saying that they do this more frequently and rush with warning you if your consumption of water/electricity/gas increases?

Re the 'phantom' contracts, I don't understand what you mean. Are they the ones that you say are 'out of contract' ?

I have 4 phones with Voda, 3 are 'out of contract' 1 not until next year.

If so, what is your understanding or 'out of contract'? Have you explicitly cancelled the contracts and have any proofs that the contracts had been terminated?
And no, contracts don't have necessarily be printed and signed.

Mark_K._Smith

grumbler wrote: »

Maybe bank, but I don't see what "mortgage, water, electricity, gas" have to do with your problem. I think utility companies take the readings 2 times a year in the best case scenario. Are you saying that they do this more frequently and rush with warning you if your consumption of water/electricity/gas increases?

It varies but in all cases but I get various reminders, txt, e-mail and online which inform me of usage, and stuff in the post 'cause we're all busy and sometimes paper is useful! It's obvious why Voda don't do this - why would they let you know? But a TXT message to a busy bloke that his accounts are showing unusual activity would be nice would it not (my 12 yr old son was banjaxed by this on TXT messages - that was 'only' £70? and another story from the lovely Voda) Tecnically (and I know because I run a compamy that does this kind of thing) its very simple and would cost Voda naff all. They won't do it because it would hit the bottom line. However this is not about that - they set a trap I fell in it - hey ho. What is wrong is some one lying to me about calling me and giving me a 'verbal contract' when they didn't, then enforcing a further fine (the 30 days notice) when all I want to do is leave them and find a company that behaves properly. M

Mark_K._Smith

grumbler wrote: »

Maybe bank, but I don't see what "mortgage, water, electricity, gas" have to do with your problem. I think utility companies take the readings 2 times a year in the best case scenario. Are you saying that they do this more frequently and rush with warning you if your consumption of water/electricity/gas increases?

Re the 'phantom' contracts, I don't understand what you mean. Are they the ones that you say are 'out of contract' ?
If so, what is your understanding or 'out of contract'? Have you explicitly cancelled the contracts and have any proofs that the contracts had been terminated?
And no, contracts don't have necessarily be printed and signed.

Just read the chat above (tediously long I know) - they said you have a 'verbal contract' - and gave a time and date of the call. That was a lie -they never made the call but it is that 'verbal contract' that they use to justify the 30 day termination you see. So they pretend to give you a contract and then sting you to cancel it!!!

grumbler

I don't see any 'trap' and I don't see any 'lies' unless you imply that the contracts that are now 'out of contract' had been set up without your consent.

Mark_K._Smith

grumbler wrote: »

I don't see any 'trap' and I don't see any 'lies' unless you imply that the contracts that are now 'out of contract' had been set up without your consent.

Ok last try. Yes that is exactly what I am saying. They lied when they said that I had agreed to a verbal contract. I did not. They even gave a name and time of the call, but refused to say to which number. It cannot be mine because I'm with Orange!!! Clear?

grumbler

Not clear yet.
Was the minimum term 1 month?
If not, how do you know that it expired?
For how long have they been taking the money for these contracts?
How is it possible that your wife ran a huge bill on the contract that was set up without your/her consent?

Silk

Mark_K._Smith wrote: »

A contract is required against which to roll, the issue is not the 30 days - it's the phantom contract - you can't just pretend you have one!? And they have done just that - made it up, M

You said you have 4 phones with Vodafone all on contract unless you are on PAYG

Mark_K._Smith wrote: »

I have 4 phones with Voda, 3 are 'out of contract' 1 not until next year.

You did not object to the contracts whilst they were in force ....as I explained they transfer to 30 days rolling when they mature hence the original contracts are still in force as per their T&C's unless you cancel.
You will have agreed to the T&C's when you took the contracts out and continued with them