just stop all benefits.

Forever

I do think people have this incorrect image of all people on benefits as being scroungers when the vast majority are just going through hard times or have retired. And the Tories do play on this.

Why else do we now have rules that:

- can send terminally ill people on work placements,
- if ATOS declares a disabled or ill person fit to work and the claimants wants to appeal (40% of appeals are successful), they stop their benefits until the appeal process is complete which takes months.
- under 25's are to no longer be allowed housing benefits so if youngsters are living in an abusive home or want to move to where jobs are, then tough!
- the unemployed receive work placements in supermarkets which then displaces paying jobs encouraging more people to go on to benefits rather than off.

I could add others to this list but I am going to stop here. I'm just waiting for the Tories to get round to attacking the state pension to be honest as they are clearly the biggest group of benefit receivers.

But people then don't comment much on these scroungers:

- the MPs fiddling their expenses
- ATOS receiving our tax money for each disabled/ill claimant found fit for work instead of the ill/disabled receiving it to help ease their lives as they have more needs. And ATOS have even found people who are in comas fit for work!
- pals of the government in A4E receiving money for work placements regardless if the claimant used A4E to actually find the work.

I could list others but I am going to stop here.

I will repeat again, I am not a labour supporter (I dislike all the current 3 (nearly identical) political parties) and I did think the benefits system before all these changes needed an overhaul. However, what IDS has implemented comes across as just plain spiteful and not well-thought out at all.

concerned43

I see the effects of the government's 'scrounger' propaganda everyday at CAB.
I see OAP too scared to apply for pension credit in case people think they are 'scroungers'.
I see people who have cancer who are too scared to apply for Disability benefits because they know they will be treated abhorrently by ATOS.
Parents too scared to apply for DLA for their children because they don't want the kids school to think they are 'scroungers'.
the list goes on and on....
so the Tories win - those on benefits (which include working people) are looked down on by society and those who really should be getting benefits don't apply for the fear of being tarred as a scrounger.
I think its a sad day when people are attacking the most vulnerable in society but then it does take the heat of the Tories for their failed economic policies.
Oh and another thing - these vulnerable people's voices are heard through the likes of the CAB but in the next couple of years you will find the CAB slowly disappearing - our CAB office's funding is getting cut next year by £79,000... that leaves us with a budget of £38k. We will be down to 1 paid part time member of staff. So they are slowly eradicating that 'voice' too.!!

The_White_Horse

concerned43 wrote: »

I see the effects of the government's 'scrounger' propaganda everyday at CAB.
I see OAP too scared to apply for pension credit in case people think they are 'scroungers'.
I see people who have cancer who are too scared to apply for Disability benefits because they know they will be treated abhorrently by ATOS.
Parents too scared to apply for DLA for their children because they don't want the kids school to think they are 'scroungers'.
the list goes on and on....
so the Tories win - those on benefits (which include working people) are looked down on by society and those who really should be getting benefits don't apply for the fear of being tarred as a scrounger.
I think its a sad day when people are attacking the most vulnerable in society but then it does take the heat of the Tories for their failed economic policies.
Oh and another thing - these vulnerable people's voices are heard through the likes of the CAB but in the next couple of years you will find the CAB slowly disappearing - our CAB office's funding is getting cut next year by £79,000... that leaves us with a budget of £38k. We will be down to 1 paid part time member of staff. So they are slowly eradicating that 'voice' too.!!

this is good. the more people that are "shamed" and realise they are scroungers the better.

PaulF81

concerned43 wrote: »

I see the effects of the government's 'scrounger' propaganda everyday at CAB.
I see OAP too scared to apply for pension credit in case people think they are 'scroungers'.
I see people who have cancer who are too scared to apply for Disability benefits because they know they will be treated abhorrently by ATOS.
Parents too scared to apply for DLA for their children because they don't want the kids school to think they are 'scroungers'.
the list goes on and on....
so the Tories win - those on benefits (which include working people) are looked down on by society and those who really should be getting benefits don't apply for the fear of being tarred as a scrounger.
I think its a sad day when people are attacking the most vulnerable in society but then it does take the heat of the Tories for their failed economic policies.
Oh and another thing - these vulnerable people's voices are heard through the likes of the CAB but in the next couple of years you will find the CAB slowly disappearing - our CAB office's funding is getting cut next year by £79,000... that leaves us with a budget of £38k. We will be down to 1 paid part time member of staff. So they are slowly eradicating that 'voice' too.!!

Replace the phrase vulnerable with the word weak and I would agree with you

Forever

The_White_Horse wrote: »

this is good. the more people that are "shamed" and realise they are scroungers the better.

I guess there is no point debating with someone who lacks any sort of morality, emotions or empathy.

Are you Ian Duncan Smith by any chance?

squeeks

Clifford_Pope wrote: »

Why not just pay an automatic £140 pw to every single UK resident, regardless of age, disability, working, scrounging, and scrap all state benefits and pensions?

Close down the Dept of Employment, pensions, social security etc, and sell off all job centres etc.

Then those who want to earn more can do so, those who don't, or can't, or want to retire on £140 pw can do so.

Can anyone do the sums and work out whether there would be a net cost or gain?

If you give everyone £140 a week, it equates to the same to not giving anyone anything a week.

If tax was a flat rate all the way up, that might help. At least make it so there can't be a situation where working results in a lower net income to not working.

A._Badger

Forever wrote: »

I guess there is no point debating with someone who lacks any sort of morality, emotions or empathy.

Are you Ian Duncan Smith by any chance?

You've well and truly blown your credibility there. IDS is regarded as fairly liberal.

Just remind us which party put us in the happy position where 53 per cent of homes in the UK are net takers rather than contributors? And how long do you think that can go on before something breaks?

carefullycautious

ruggedtoast wrote: »

What kind of cereal bar would it be? I like the ones with the chocolate chips.

Would there be ones with chocolate chips?

The worst ones are those ones that are trying to be healthy with all the tangy dried berry crud in them. Those could be reserved for offenders.

:rotfl: :rotfl: ::rotfl:

Forever

A._Badger wrote: »

You've well and truly blown your credibility there. IDS is regarded as fairly liberal.

Just remind us which party put us in the happy position where 53 per cent of homes in the UK are net takers rather than contributors? And how long do you think that can go on before something breaks?

Ian Duncan Smith is liberal? :eek:

Since when and according to who? I think you have given me the laugh of the week!

And as i have already posted twice in this thread, the official breakdown of how our benefits are spent shows that the vast majority is spent on the elderly and on low wage earners who need benefits in order to keep a roof over their heads because wages are too low and housing costs are too high.

A._Badger

Forever wrote: »

Ian Duncan Smith is liberal? :eek:

Since when and according to who? I think you have given me the laugh of the week!

To anyone who isn't on the Left of Neil Kinnock at a guess.

IDS (I'm not a fan of his by any means) has been trying to espouse 'compassionate Conservatism' within the Party. Clearly, it isn't compassionate enough for the Left.

Forever wrote: »

And as i have already posted twice in this thread, the official breakdown of how our benefits are spent shows that the vast majority is spent on the elderly and on low wage earners who need benefits in order to keep a roof over their heads because wages are too low and housing costs are too high.

Which is a meaningless non-answer to my question.

Let me try again. How long do you think a country can go on with an estimated 53 per cent taking out more than they put in?

Who gets the benefits, isn't the question.