URGENT Housing Association, threaten to remove my car from residents car park

fivetide

That's fine. The response is about SORN powers and to me reads as a clarification of what is and isn't private land.

All I'm saying is the DVLA are not known for being super smart on this http://forums.pepipoo.com/lofiversion/index.php/t46528.html

The OP should be ready just in case. Nothing more to it.

If it was really as easy as none of this being relevant, the OP would not have the issue he is having now.

5t.

BobQ

OP,

I would pay the tax and avoid the hassel that will surely follow.

If I read your postings correctly your lease does not grant you any right to park on this land.

Not sure the law is entirely clear what is correct in this case. But it seems to me that anyone who owns a carpark should be able to lay down rulings on who can use the carpark. Many employers provide workplace parking but company procedures often state that vehicles on their site must be taxed and insured and driven in accordance with the RTA. Iam surprised the HA does not specify something in the tenancy agreement or in a residents handbook to explain what you can and cannot use the carpark. Suppose one of the residents ran a business with vans and regularly allowed 12 of them park on the land? There must be some rules about the carpark surely?

Rover_Driver

All I'm saying is the DVLA are not known for being super smart on this http://forums.pepipoo.com/lofiversio...hp/t46528.html


The OP's problem is that the Housing Association are insisting that he licenses his car when it is not required. The DVLA are not involved. The Housing Association have confirmed to the OP (post 18) that the car park is private land, so they could hardly then tell the DVLA that it is a public road.

The pepipoo thread you refer to was a letter from the DVLA (not a clamping or removal) as a result of (false?) information from a local busy-body.

Joe_Horner

But they won't be using the DVLA if they've given notice under Torts (interference with goods), as the OP said they had.

It's a civil matter concerning how a bailee of property belonging to another person goes about disposing of that property and has nothing to do with road tax, SORN or any other motoring matters.

The lack of tax is simply a reason for them to believe that the vehicle may be abandoned on their land and for them to start the process of removing it.

The first stage of that process is to give notice to the owner that they require the property (in this case a car, but could equally be a chest of drawers left in a house or a handbag left in an office) removed.

Whether a notice attached to the car is sufficient under the Act is debateable because the Act is quite specific as to the form of notice and how it should be delivered. But that would have to be weighed against the privacy / DPA implications of them requesting RK details from DVLA to serve notice by post.

In any case, the removal has nothing to do with DVLA powers because they wouldn't be involved. It also has nothing to do with the new rules regarding parking enforcement because they're not treating it as a parking infringement, they're treating it as abandoned property that just happens to be a car.

They do have a right to dispose of such property, without referring to the Courts, provided they follow the procedure laid down in the Act. Now that the OP has informed them that it's not abandoned they also have a right to require its removal if having it there is in breach of the tenancy, including any ammendments that may have been notified.

I still find it very unlikely that there's nothing in the tenancy to prohibit untaxed cars in the car park because it's a standard term, usually along with a ban on carrying out maintenance, and has been for a long time.

For example:

Guiness Hermitage in Gloucester (page 11 under parking):
http://www.guinnesshermitagegloucester.co.uk/documents/website%5CYour%20Tenancy%20Agreement%2FAssured%20Tenancy.pdf

L&Q London (page 14 under Vehicles):
http://www.lqgroup.org.uk/_assets/files/Assured-%28AFFORDABLE-RENT%29---Terms-and-Conditions.pdf

Orbit Heart of England:
http://www.orbitheartofengland.org.uk/main.cfm?type=LIVINYR#Parking

fivetide

Rover_Driver wrote: »

The OP's problem is that the Housing Association are insisting that he licenses his car when it is not required.

Yes and again, PPCs are not that great on the law are they?

http://forums.pepipoo.com/lofiversion/index.php/t53579.html

It may also be down to what the OP's Housing Association has in it's rules.

Yes, it is private land but the OP doesn't own it. The Housing Association may well insist that vehicles are all taxed. They may also have a period of grace or be ok with it if notified in advance but as it is their land then it is their rules surely? If they say they don't want an untaxed car on their land, what can you do about it?

I agree, though, the OP has done this in good faith and as such, should fight it. Perhaps you may have some additional links that can help the OP strengthen his case?

5t.

demonted

Just to clarify, if of any relevance, regarding inspectors, patrols or neighbours reporting my car for being untaxed.

An estate manager while investigating a neighbour who appears to be a part time car dealer, had an accident damage car parked near my car and noticed my car wasn't displaying valid tax disc.

If it wasn't for the damaged car, probably no one would have noticed.

demonted

Joe_Horner wrote: »

They do have a right to dispose of such property, without referring to the Courts, provided they follow the procedure laid down in the Act. Now that the OP has informed them that it's not abandoned they also have a right to require its removal if having it there is in breach of the tenancy, including any ammendments that may have been notified.

I still find it very unlikely that there's nothing in the tenancy to prohibit untaxed cars in the car park because it's a standard term, usually along with a ban on carrying out maintenance, and has been for a long time.

That my point, you've got it one.

The HA first reason, was no road tax, it's against the law.
With written confirmation from Council, that it does not form part of the adopted highway, the HA agree and admit its Private Land.

Their Second reason, it's a breach of my tenancy, its stated within that my car must display road tax.
I inform the HA that it is not, they agree, stating my tenancy referes to my property and not the car park that's why it's not included.

Yes, my tenancy agreement does state residents can not carry out maintenace to their cars in the car park.

It's also state residents can not run a business either.

However, my stance is in regard to the heavy handed treatment Ive received, this issue has never occurred to me before, (TORT Notice) and I don't make an habit of failing to tax cars, nor did I plan to leave my car in the car park for six months without tax.

However, the HA upon till now have failed to provide any terms, clause or ammenment to support their claims other than
demand that I tax it, remove it of they (HA) will remove it and charge me.

After all, although car maintenance in the car park is prohibited, so is playing loud music, both stated within the tenancy agreement, however, the issue with loud music goes on for ever and ever by the same residents and nothing appears to be done.

As for car maintenance, one or two residents do carry out minor repairs on their cars from time to time, nothing as serious as fitting brakes, removing engines or gearboxes, but would it be acceptable to issue a Notice to Quite if a resident carries such maintence maybe one or twice a month, personally, I think not ?

Should my HA provide proof that failing to tax my car is in breach of my tenancy, then I would have no choice but abide, however if not, why should they be able to use a threat of the removal of my car to enforce such a ruling when they don't have the authority to do so.

demonted

BobQ wrote: »

OP,

I would pay the tax and avoid the hassel that will surely follow.

If I read your postings correctly your lease does not grant you any right to park on this land.

Got no money, can't pay.

You didn't read my post correctly.

I have been granted permission to use the car, it is stated within my tenancy agreement that I can use the car park.

There are also various signs around the car park which state
" Private Car Park Residents Only " followed by the house Numbers which are permitted to use the car park, with my Number be one of the numbers displayed.

Norman_Castle

I have been granted permission to use the car, it is stated within my tenancy agreement that I can use the car park.

You haven't been granted permission to use the car park. Your rental agreement includes use of the car park. Your rent entitles you to park there.

demonted

Norman_Castle wrote: »

You haven't been granted permission to use the car park. Your rental agreement includes use of the car park. Your rent entitles you to park there.

Don't be so bloody stupid !

Entitled/permission, go back to cloud cookoo land, I can use the car park.

However it is stating, I believe it's only you who sees it that way !