URGENT Housing Association, threaten to remove my car from residents car park

fivetide

As residents we had a group of cars lifted from a communal car park and the registered owner claimed the same thing -private land.

The guy was taking the proverbial, fixing up bangers to sell on so he had four or five cars at one point, all with no tax.


However, as the area was communal it was possible to get the DVLA and Council on him. This is because to be SORN it needs to be on private land with the land owners permission. As it was a shared ownership he didn't have the landholders permission, not a majority at least so the cars were cleared off fairly quick after that. I don't think they were actually removed but he quickly stopped so I can only assume that something was said that convinced him to tow the line.

Another 'abandoned' car was also removed by the council from the car park after being reported.

Your case is different though. As I say, this guy was having a laugh but you only have the one car. The only issue I can spot is with access to the public. Presumably the residents are allowed visitors and as such, the car park could be classed as having public access, even if it is technically private. On that basis the RTA can apply, again, this is what the police told me after someone bumped my car in a 'private' Tesco car park. You may find it does need to be 'road legal' as it were for those reasons.

Still, it sounds like someone doesn't like you and, as has been the case for some years in this country, commonsense has been removed from the decision making process.

Good luck with it.

5t.

Rover_Driver

fivetide wrote: »

However, as the area was communal it was possible to get the DVLA and Council on him. This is because to be SORN it needs to be on private land with the land owners permission.

Presumably the residents are allowed visitors and as such, the car park could be classed as having public access, even if it is technically private. On that basis the RTA can apply, again, this is what the police told me after someone bumped my car in a 'private' Tesco car park. You may find it does need to be 'road legal' as it were for those reasons.

5t.

The requirement for a SORN declaration to be valid, is that the vehicle must not be used or kept on a public road - a road repairable at public expense - who owns the land, or their permission is irrelevant.

If it is a private car park, open only to residents or visitors, - not the general public - it may not be considered to be a public place within the meaning of the Road Traffic Act 1988. A Tesco's car car park could be because that is open to the general public.

demonted

Hey, some valid points there Fivetide, just hope my HA don't see your reply.

I was concerned regarding RTA but Police Traffic Division assure me that as a residence, although with public access, it doesn't fall under same highways rules as a Hospital, supermarket, motorway services or any other area of land with vehicle access, he did say it was entering grey area of the law though.

My dispute is not what the DVLA/Police or Government can or can't do, it's the heavy handed actions and threats issued by Housing Association that I dispute.

After all, I'm a resident, I have permission to use the car park, the Government for whatever reasons offers the option to declare a car as off road and due to my personal circumstances, I've took advantage of such an option.
I have a private car park outside my home, which I'm entitled to use, a car park that can accommodate at least 20 cars, there is rarely more than 10 cars parked over night, the estate has another car parks, which is nearly always empty, that too can accommodate at least 15 cars.

I can fully understand cars being removed due to constantly fixing or running a business from their home, selling cars. However, such examples are blantant breaches of the tenancy agreement, even my tenancy state cars can not be repaired in the car park of, nor can a business be run from home.

I'm attempting to fight the HA authority to make such demands, issue such threats, attempt to enforce such rules without the authority do to so.

After all, when a Notice to Quite is severed, with an expiry date, such a notice is only an Notice of Intention to seeking possession, which requires a court order before an eviction can be carried out.

It's my believe, more so since new rules regarding the removal and clamping of vehicles on private land, that the HA can only remove my car with a court order.

They have no right to incur charges by removing my car or place myself in such a position that storage fees are incurred, especially when, if my car remains where it is, without removing it, no fees are incurred

I've had permission to use the car park for at least 10 years and have done so without penalty.

mikey72

demonted wrote: »

...............New laws came into force on 1st October 2012 which prevent cars from being removed from private Land and or placed into a compound incurring storage charges.............

The law doesn't state that, and it also gave more access to private land.

mikey72 wrote: »

............The act specifically states it applies if the clamper (or other) is

"intending to prevent or inhibit the removal of the vehicle by a person otherwise entitled to remove it."

by for example either clamping it and immobilising where it is, or taking it back to an impound yard and refusing to return it, and peventing the owner taking it.
No one has said that will happen here.
There isn't anything in the act specificlly to simply stop anyone moving it.
In fact the next section extends powers under Section 99 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 to include private land, as well as the public highway. Subject to it still being legal to carry out there obviously.

fivetide

Rover_Driver wrote: »

The requirement for a SORN declaration to be valid, is that the vehicle must not be used or kept on a public road - a road repairable at public expense - who owns the land, or their permission is irrelevant.

If it is a private car park, open only to residents or visitors, - not the general public - it may not be considered to be a public place within the meaning of the Road Traffic Act 1988. A Tesco's car car park could be because that is open to the general public.

Well this may have been updated with the October info in respect of the DVLA. As I say, I can only talk from my experience but:

According to Finance Act 2008, the places that vehicles cannot be removed from are:

(a) any place which is within the curtilage of, or in the vicinity of, a dwelling-house, mobile home or houseboat and which is normally enjoyed with it, or

(b) any place which is within the curtilage of, or in the vicinity of, a building consisting entirely (apart from common parts) of two or more dwellings and which is normally enjoyed only by the occupiers of one or more of those dwellings.”

Which says to me the DVLA can come and remove a car from shared parking.

Info from Pepipoo.

Here's someone who has had their bike clamped in a residents car park - from February this year.

http://forums.pepipoo.com/lofiversion/index.php/t68776.html

OP, if someone has reported it (it can't believe that a factor would bother to do an inspection) it might be worth moving it or finding a way to tax it. Chances are they'll also be speaking to the DVLA. Anyone looking at you funny? :think:

5t.

Rover_Driver

fivetide wrote: »

Well this may have been updated with the October info in respect of the DVLA. As I say, I can only talk from my experience but:

According to Finance Act 2008, the places that vehicles cannot be removed from are:

(a) any place which is within the curtilage of, or in the vicinity of, a dwelling-house, mobile home or houseboat and which is normally enjoyed with it, or

(b) any place which is within the curtilage of, or in the vicinity of, a building consisting entirely (apart from common parts) of two or more dwellings and which is normally enjoyed only by the occupiers of one or more of those dwellings.”

Which says to me the DVLA can come and remove a car from shared parking.

Info from Pepipoo.

Here's someone who has had their bike clamped in a residents car park - from February this year.

http://forums.pepipoo.com/lofiversion/index.php/t68776.html

5t.

The 2008 Finance Act and the Pepipoo thread refer to vehicles that are neither licensed or SORN, as the OP's car is SORN, they don't apply in his case.

fivetide

Rover_Driver wrote: »

The 2008 Finance Act and the Pepipoo thread refer to vehicles that are neither licensed or SORN, as the OP's car is SORN, they don't apply in his case.

Cheers, will have a look as I'm sure there are more.

Interesting chat in this thread http://forums.pepipoo.com/lofiversion/index.php/t48605.html

5t.

Rover_Driver

fivetide wrote: »

Interesting chat in this thread http://forums.pepipoo.com/lofiversion/index.php/t48605.html

5t.

Another thread where people don't understand the differences between, and the different requirements of, the Road Traffic Act 1998 and the Vehicles Excise & Registration Act 1994!!

fivetide

Right, it seems the tin'terweb is full of people reported to the DVLA by busy bodies and it causes no end of grief.

The tricky bit is making sure the landowner doesn't invite them in. You should be ok OP but a Housing Association might have a no untaxed cars policy and as the landowner, invite the DVLA in.

That's not to say the DVLA are well known for efficiency and factor agents aren't averse to being a jack of all trades and mater of none so it could be prickly if someone does moan enough.

If that happens, this could be useful:

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/wheel_clamping_operators_and_tow

Clarification from the DVLA on the issue

"The exceptions to the expanded enforcement powers state that vehicles
parked on land associated with a house or a block of flats cannot be
wheel clamped or impounded. This applies for example, to private
driveways, garages and allocated parking bays."

The only fly in the ointment there is 'allocated parking bays' but it sounds like you have one flat and one allocated space even if they aren't marked out/numbered.

Clear as mud then!

5t.

Rover_Driver

fivetide wrote: »

Right, it seems the tin'terweb is full of people reported to the DVLA by busy bodies and it causes no end of grief.

The tricky bit is making sure the landowner doesn't invite them in. You should be ok OP but a Housing Association might have a no untaxed cars policy and as the landowner, invite the DVLA in.

That's not to say the DVLA are well known for efficiency and factor agents aren't averse to being a jack of all trades and mater of none so it could be prickly if someone does moan enough.

If that happens, this could be useful:

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/wheel_clamping_operators_and_tow

Clarification from the DVLA on the issue

"The exceptions to the expanded enforcement powers state that vehicles
parked on land associated with a house or a block of flats cannot be
wheel clamped or impounded. This applies for example, to private
driveways, garages and allocated parking bays."

The only fly in the ointment there is 'allocated parking bays' but it sounds like you have one flat and one allocated space even if they aren't marked out/numbered.

Clear as mud then!

5t.

The above only applies to unlicensed vehicles, a SORN declaration is valid, in place of a licence, if the vehicle is not used or kept on a public road.

The OP's car is SORN and is not used or kept on a public road, so none of it applies in his case.