Universal Credits - Self Employed

dktreesea

tomsanderson617 wrote: »

Self employed will suffer when uc comes in so will the economy with less new business and higher unemployment

Do you think? Plenty of SE people will be better off under the new system.

Consider a SE person who makes most of his/her profit for the year over the Xmas period. And maybe even enough profit to exclude them from things like housing benefit. Under the new plans such benefits will be based on the higher of net income or the NMW per month. So from April to October, and in Feb to March (assuming most their profit will come in the two months prior to Xmas and then the sales period after Xmas) a SE person who previously didn't receive any help will receive some UC.

And this will be fair? Even though over the whole year they might have a profit of £20k - £30k?

And anyway, all of our angst about the current welfare bill is misplaced. On the 1st of January, 2014, Romanians and Bulgarians will be able to apply for a National Insurance Number and come and work in the UK. They can now, but can't get an NI number unless they have an offer of work. The combined population of these two countries is 29 million.(Source: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4637926/Wave-of-Romanian-and-Bulgarian-immigrants-is-threatening-to-swamp-Britain.html) I realise the Sun is pretty sensationalist, but can you imagine the expansion in claims for things like housing benefit and WTC/CTC?

Why stop at Romania? What about Moldova? But it's not part of the EU, how can they come here! Ahh, but!.....
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4588046/Thousands-of-Moldovans-queue-for-passports-to-UK-in-Euro-loophole.html

leveller2911

Blue22 wrote: »

Taken from wikipedia... A welfare state is a "concept of government in which the state plays a key role in the protection and promotion of the economic and social well-being of its citizens. It is based on the principles of equality of opportunity, equitable distribution of wealth,.....doesn't that mean redistribution?

Nowhere does it state redistribution of wealth from single people to couples.


But I'm guessing the state is paying you money in the form of Child Benefit? And maybe tax credits too? It's people like you, (I assume you are a hard working, decent chap ?) who shouldn't be stigmatised as 'welfare claimants'

We receive child benefit for 2 children, we don't receive tax credits at all as our family income is approx £33k gross.I don't feel "stigmatised" at all as its my obligation not the States.We are a net contributing family and receive little back compared to what we contribute.

Yes why should you? Yet you still feel you should be paying tax at the same rate as a single person? Giving your money to that couple down the road rather than spend it on your own family.

Yes, I/we chose to have children and intend to pay for them.I wouldn't be giving them anything I would just be paying the same tax etc.

I think you have misunderstood my position. I am actually on the side of people like you. Couples in their late 20's and 30's, who would make bloody good parents but cannot afford it. Couples who pay an arm and a leg to rent a tiny flat, who maybe repaying student loans and who are trying to make responsible provision for their retirement. What choice do they have as their biological clocks tick away, either remain childless or have sites like this one brand you a 'welfare claimant'?


We are in our early/mid 40,s had our 1st child when my wife was 31 but thanks anyway:).Take your average couple ,earning average wage thats an income of £52k (gross) now saving for a few years for a baby and planning your finances around this is quite possible, we did and that was on a combined income of £23k gross 15 years ago.Far too many people are materialistic and want everything now and replace everything as soon as its out of fashion.


You mention student loans but theres nothing more perverse than the situation we use to have where the local dustman paid taxes which were used to subsidise University tuition for people who life incomes whould dwarf the bin mans by around £100,000 minimum..

I think tuition fees as being pretty fair on the whole.What the country needs is vocational skills instead of everyone having a degree in knitting which has only watered down the quality of University education.

princessdon

Blue22 wrote: »

But to be fair Princessdon your family income is way over average if you are paying over 40K in tax. By definition we can not all be rich, the majority will always be around the average.

I don't dispute this and I feel for families who get no help with a less disposble income (say a family who waited until they were in their 30's and earn £30K PA between them and get nothing). I'd rather my taxes paid them, not someone who is taking advantage of a system.

Your figures are correct re childbirth (from experience). The birthrate that is lowering is those who are likely to be degree educated with wages above NMW but not huge. They need help.

In order to do this we need to tighten up loopholes and really redistribute wealth where it is needed. The new poor are those above help (not on benefits). This is where the govt needs to concentrate.

The loopholes (like the higher tax evaders too) need closed and more fair distribution of taxes.

Blue22

princessdon wrote: »

I don't dispute this and I feel for families who get no help with a less disposble income (say a family who waited until they were in their 30's and earn £30K PA between them and get nothing). I'd rather my taxes paid them, not someone who is taking advantage of a system.

Your figures are correct re childbirth (from experience). The birthrate that is lowering is those who are likely to be degree educated with wages above NMW but not huge. They need help.

In order to do this we need to tighten up loopholes and really redistribute wealth where it is needed. The new poor are those above help (not on benefits). This is where the govt needs to concentrate.

The loopholes (like the higher tax evaders too) need closed and more fair distribution of taxes.

And I agree with you. I knew we were all really singing from the same hymn book :-)

leveller2911

Blue22 wrote: »

And I agree with you. I knew we were all really singing from the same hymn book :-)

Group Hug? :beer:

(I'm not one for smileys normally)

leveller2911

princessdon wrote: »

I don't dispute this and I feel for families who get no help with a less disposble income (say a family who waited until they were in their 40's and earn £30K PA between them and get nothing). I'd rather my taxes paid them, not someone who is taking advantage of a system.



Just corrected the age group for ya,want my bank details? all donations welcome.

Blue22

leveller2911 wrote: »

We are a net contributing family and receive little back compared to what we contribute.

And that's how I look at it whether families are nett contributors or takers. I just get annoyed when everyone seems to get tarred as benefit claimants bleeding the country dry.

leveller2911 wrote: »

We are in our early/mid 40,s had our 1st child when my wife was 31 but thanks anyway:).

Although can you not concede that by being in your 40's you missed the really tough times that those 10 -15 years younger than you are living with now? It's those I feel very sorry for.

leveller2911

Blue22 wrote: »

Although can you not concede that by being in your 40's you missed the really tough times that those 10 -15 years younger than you are living with now? It's those I feel very sorry for.

Would need to think about that for at least a day or two.My immediate thought is during the last 10-15 years there has never been a better time to be in receipt of benefits.It shocks me at the total lack of investment in vocational training that we have suffered from in the past 20 years.

I think the ones who will suffer the most are the current children who will be paying back the deficit which they didn't create.

The biggest disgrace is how the political elite make a complete mess time and time again which impacts on the lives of the majority whilst they feather their own nests.

I don't have much time for any of the political parties ,they all have some good ideas and bad but can't agree on anything.

Time to get down off my soapbox.

[Deleted User]

So are we now saying that if the "delay" is actually happens (fingers crossed).

There will be no change to rules, or do the rules change anyway even if the system isn't in place.

Also can anyone that liked my original post (this thread) thank me please, I don't get many and I think my thread was a good point to post on :-)

Thanks all .

Blue22

leveller2911 wrote: »

My immediate thought is during the last 10-15 years there has never been a better time to be in receipt of benefits.

Yes I agree if you mean those with a high proportion of income paid as benefits.

But it has not been so great for those trying to help themselves....This is a post I copied from HPC which I found really sad.

I too have had enough. It is not an angry "had enough", I've gone beyond that now. Instead, it is a kind of sad resignation that nothing I do makes any difference.

We have lived like misers for six years. We have saved everything we could. My OH has done hundreds of hours of overtime. I have taken every freelance work I could on top of my own job. All in all, I have mostly sat in front of a damn monitor 12 hours plus a day for seven days a week, only taking time off when I felt my head might explode. I am now in my late 30s, I want to have a child, but the house we rent is not safe nor appropriate for a baby. Then, two weeks ago, a three-bed terrace back-to-back near us on a main road with no garden, garage or drive went on the market for £290k.

I saw that ad and something inside me just broke. The house in question is a horrid place; no one in their right mind would pay over £160K for it. But the fact the EA had even thought it viable to stick it up that that price just made me realise how insane EAs and vendors have become --- and I realised that it is just not going to end, not unless something enormous happens, which would no doubt take us down with it. We make reasonable offers but vendors are so deluded, they think their two-bed semis with no kitchen and no electrics, sitting by a main road, are somehow worth £220K plus.

People say "live your life" but it isn't that easy. At some point, we will have to move and the awareness of that makes us anxious about spending money that could be put into the deposit pot -- so life is on hold, and has been for six years. I'd love to go, but we would still need to earn a living, and my parents are getting on now.

We've just found ourselves in a kind of hell. I go to work and it just seems to be getting worse and worse out there. No one smiles anymore. My mum took me to a play a few months ago, and I couldn't believe our local town centre at night. It's like a drunken kindergarten with street angel "nannies" stopping the infants from collapsing and braining themselves on the concrete. When I go away, I find it so bizarre how there is a "proper society" with old people and families and children out at night, no matter their creed, even in places where there has been a civil war in the last thirty years