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Universal Credits - Self Employed
Comments
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MissMoneypenny wrote: »i.e. many farmers have been able to claim tax credits, despite very generous handouts from the EU too. One farmer told me that they had never had it so good.
Can you really not see the difference between using all your tax deductables to show a low income and pay less tax; and using a low income to claim more welfare payments?
Didn't you know that you can make figures show anything?
Most of the farmers around here are living on the breadline.0 -
leveller2911 wrote: »Quite possible ,however it will result in the UK being similar to Greece. In a spiral of debt,Civil unrest and very few options of a way out. All those wishing for a swift end to the proposed changes to the welfare state had better think long and hard what exactly they do wish for.
People are so naive if they think Nu-Labour have any solutions to the problems we face....
There is no easy solution and typically Nu-Labour harp on about a plan and yet they give little actual details of their "Plan" and openly admit they would need to make similar cuts as the Condems.That together with the fact that we suffered 13yrs of financial suicide they don't exactly install confidence.
People need to start standing on their own feet and stop relying on the State to bail them out.
None of which has anything to do with the manifest unfairness of a self-employed person with exactly the same profits as the taxable earnings of a PAYE person giving different entitlement amounts - significantly different - to UC.
Or the manifest stupidity in adding another layer of red tape to the running of small businesses - and this includes employers (who have to report PAYE weekly online) as well as the self-employed themselves.0 -
Most of the farmers around here are living on the breadline.
I know a farmer who only has 100 acres and just one of his EU farming payments was 26K; and he had lots more to come. He laughs about how it is in a farmers genetic make-up to moan and plead poverty. I even bought him a book from a farming stall with losts of jokes about the way farmers moan.
The other farmer I mentioned before; who said he had never had it so good; farmed arable and sheep. Both of his children are at an expensive private school.
Both of these farmers also have a BUPA subscription.RENTING? Have you checked to see that your landlord has permission from their mortgage lender to rent the property? If not, you could be thrown out with very little notice.
Read the sticky on the House Buying, Renting & Selling board.0 -
None of which has anything to do with the manifest unfairness of a self-employed person with exactly the same profits as the taxable earnings of a PAYE person giving different entitlement amounts - significantly different - to UC.
Perhaps it would be better to understand if we called them "handouts".
The "unfairness" you speak of was when the SE were allowed to pay less tax and use their figures to claim more handouts. That wrong is now being righted. Now the SE will have to cut their cloth accordingly.
Someone posted a thread before about how there was a lot of (extra) moaning at the a farmers union meeting when they realised their tax credits payments would stop. People get use to living on all the welfare money.RENTING? Have you checked to see that your landlord has permission from their mortgage lender to rent the property? If not, you could be thrown out with very little notice.
Read the sticky on the House Buying, Renting & Selling board.0 -
Most of the farmers around here are living on the breadline.
Fair comment especially with hill farmers and small tenant farmers.The problem is the EU CAP is in general a gravy train for medium/large scale farmers.
I know a famer local to me who is frequently on TV saying how hard farming is and yet he has a lovelly 5-6 bedroom house ,new cars/vehicles and ownes 5 farms in total.Its the only industry I know where the tax paying public pays them compensation for losses (foot and mouth etc) whereas any other business has to insure itself against losses.
They were paid to grub out hedges,leave fields un-ploughed for "set aside", plant wild flowers and now plant those same hedges they were paid to grub out years ago. They were paid to plough right up to the field boundery and now paid to leave a field margin for wildlife.
They want/need taxpayers susidies and yet are reluctant to let the public access to their land.
I feel for the minority of farmers but on the whole with regards to EU and UK benefits they are generously looked after.
We should be more sympathetic towards our National Fishing Fleet (under 10mtr Boats) but they don't own thousnds of acres of land and give generous donations to political parties.....;)0 -
None of which has anything to do with the manifest unfairness of a self-employed person with exactly the same profits as the taxable earnings of a PAYE person giving different entitlement amounts - significantly different - to UC.
I never said it did, my post was a reply to a previous post that I had quoted, did you not see the qoute?..
BTW I'm self employed and have been for 25 years and have run my business successfully and the only benefits we receive is child benefit.
I see genuine SE struggling through red tape but also tin post SE Betterware/Avon collectors who have no intention of making a real business work , just a cop out for tax credits qualification.Not forgetting the one man band LTD Companies drawing a minimum in wages whilst claiming TC and paying themselves sizeable dividends.
There is planty of scope for overhauling the system with regards SE.I do however have sympathy with the beaurocracy they face.
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leveller2911 wrote: »There is planty of scope for overhauling the system with regards SE.I do however have sympathy with the beaurocracy they face.
If they work hard to build their business up, then they won't need to go through all the UC conditions. It's too easy under the present welfare system, just to fill in a form once a year for welfare such as tax credits and then watch the welfare payments roll into their bank account every month.
Other welfare claimants i.e. jobseekers; have to carry out conditions every week to get their welfare payments and that motivates a lot of those claimants to get off welfare. Perhaps now that other welfare claimants will also have to carry out conditions under UC, it will motivate them to get off welfare too?RENTING? Have you checked to see that your landlord has permission from their mortgage lender to rent the property? If not, you could be thrown out with very little notice.
Read the sticky on the House Buying, Renting & Selling board.0 -
MissMoneypenny wrote: »Perhaps now that other welfare claimants will also have to carry out conditions under UC, it will motivate them to get off welfare too?
Going a little off topic...
I've read many of your posts MissMoneyPenny and have been shocked by what appears to be your complete contempt for anyone claiming 'welfare'. You obviously do not think that any family with children are entitled to be treated any differently to a single worker? You feel they 'need motivating to get off welfare'? Well I think they are entitled to a little 'welfare'
Children cost money. They also restrict a persons/couples earning capacity. Since its conception, the welfare state has always redistributed money from single people to families. Well that is until now. Now we expect somebody with parental responsibilities to pay the same tax as a single person and then treat them as irresponsible 'welfare claimants' if they dare to ask for anything back.
I noted from one of your previous posts that you have children in their twenties? So you were once one of those 'welfare claimants' that took Child Benefit and increased tax allowances from the state? But you want to deny this generation the same handouts that you had?0 -
Going a little off topic...
I've read many of your posts MissMoneyPenny and have been shocked by what appears to be your complete contempt for anyone claiming 'welfare'. You obviously do not think that any family with children are entitled to be treated any differently to a single worker? You feel they 'need motivating to get off welfare'? Well I think they are entitled to a little 'welfare'
Children cost money. They also restrict a persons/couples earning capacity. Since its conception, the welfare state has always redistributed money from single people to families. Well that is until now. Now we expect somebody with parental responsibilities to pay the same tax as a single person and then treat them as irresponsible 'welfare claimants' if they dare to ask for anything back.
I noted from one of your previous posts that you have children in their twenties? So you were once one of those 'welfare claimants' that took Child Benefit and increased tax allowances from the state? But you want to deny this generation the same handouts that you had?
I'm sure Miss Moneypenny will be along to reply but my view of your post is that you fail to relise that having children is a lifestyle choice, no one is forced (rape aside) to have children.The main problem with 21 century UK is the "entitlement" culture.
If you look at the origins of the welfare state it had little if anything to do with re-distributing wealth from single people to families and everything to do with having a safety net for all who fell on hard times and to lift people out of poverty. A system where taxes were proportionate to income,I'm at a loss to see how you come to a view that the " welfare state has always redistributed money from single people to families" its utter rubbish.
We have 2 children so why should'nt we pay the same level of tax as a single person?, why should the state pay money to us to care for our children, children I might add we wanted.
We stopped at 2 children because we know we can pay for 2.Why should I pay money from my taxes to a couple living 2 doors down who now have 5 kids, wife is a STAHM ,husband workes part time and has done for years and they receive over £11k a year in benefits not including CTB and HB? and spends most of his time looking after his tropical fish.
Are you seriously suggesting the creators of the benefits system had this in mind ?.
If people want children then they should pay for them...Yours is a typical lefty view that has left the country in a complete mess , all we hear is "I'm entitled". Try researching the mindset of the Asian economies and you will find they have a completely reverse attitude and guess which economies are growing and wealth created.
How are you going to fund your benefits eutopia?.0 -
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