Worrying letter from hm revenue really need advice please

antonic

chrismac1 wrote: »

The reason why RTI is likely to be a total disaster is well shown by this thread. At all levels from Lin Homer down to the newest recruit, HMRC staff have in general got no clue whatsoever about what it's like running a business, small large or medium.

They spend their careers inside the detail of the UK tax system and still make basic errors routinely, yet expect a higher standard from business owners and their employees - and indeed "normal" taxpayers - for whom understanding the UK tax system is a minor part of their lives, hopefully.

Very very few of the HMRC people I deal with on a weekly basis have any notion that every single UK employer or VAT-registered business is acting as an unpaid tax collecter and hence funding their salary.

For once Chrismac1 I totally agree with you.

I can see the wheels coming off in a big way and they are also doing this at the same time they are moving Tax Credits to DWP, as part of Universal Credit, so I an this all going wrong in a large way. but our political masters have decided this will happen and so happen it will.

molerat

Perhaps another item to put on Martin's financial education agenda.

System

chrismac1 wrote: »

The reason why RTI is likely to be a total disaster is well shown by this thread. At all levels from Lin Homer down to the newest recruit, HMRC staff have in general got no clue whatsoever about what it's like running a business, small large or medium.

They spend their careers inside the detail of the UK tax system and still make basic errors routinely, yet expect a higher standard from business owners and their employees - and indeed "normal" taxpayers - for whom understanding the UK tax system is a minor part of their lives, hopefully.

Very very few of the HMRC people I deal with on a weekly basis have any notion that every single UK employer or VAT-registered business is acting as an unpaid tax collecter and hence funding their salary.

A purely personal opinion, of course. But I think this is the new paradigm that everyone is going to need to get used to. In many ways its the logical conclusion of the road that started with Self-Assessment. I'd be very surprised if we didn't see more 'self service' in routine day to day work over the next few years.

With more responsibility comes....more responsibility - to misquote Stan Lee.

elmerfudd_2

chrismac1 wrote: »

The reason why RTI is likely to be a total disaster is well shown by this thread. At all levels from Lin Homer down to the newest recruit, HMRC staff have in general got no clue whatsoever about what it's like running a business, small large or medium.

They spend their careers inside the detail of the UK tax system and still make basic errors routinely, yet expect a higher standard from business owners and their employees - and indeed "normal" taxpayers - for whom understanding the UK tax system is a minor part of their lives, hopefully.

Very very few of the HMRC people I deal with on a weekly basis have any notion that every single UK employer or VAT-registered business is acting as an unpaid tax collecter and hence funding their salary.

You are quick to blame the average HMRC employee, but i imagine they are well aware of the shortcomings and point these out immediately. On the subject of RTI for example as you are so keen on mentioning it, again you need to consider your clients that you represent and the quality of the data they send in. Surely it's not too much to expect they supply correct information is it, especially as they are receiving your expert and most likely costly guidance??

chrismac1

In fact most HMRC staff are only too happy to defend rubbish systems, rubbish performance, massive waiting queues and 20 minutes to answer the phone in my experience. It is always refreshing to talk to one of them who still lives in the real world.

You once again trot out the tired HMRC line that it's up to the client. My clients are first and foremost running businesses, making profits and paying taxes to keep bums on seats at HMRC Towers.

Typically their staff come along with "new employee" forms which have incorrect DoB, NI numbers and other misinformation. Note that this equally applies to the UK's largest employers, one of whom I worked for until 2009.

For example, when we used to do large scale payroll re-organisations quite often things would go awry mid-year. We'd have it sorted out by the end of the tax year, but meanwhile there would be problems. Under RTI all this duff gen gets thrown at the database. I have seen nothing to coming out of the pilot to convince me anyone at HMRC is ready for this.

jem16

chrismac1 wrote: »

For example, when we used to do large scale payroll re-organisations quite often things would go awry mid-year. We'd have it sorted out by the end of the tax year, but meanwhile there would be problems. Under RTI all this duff gen gets thrown at the database. I have seen nothing to coming out of the pilot to convince me anyone at HMRC is ready for this.

So what do you expect to happen?

It seems that most people on here are complaining that HMRC don't sort out their tax affairs quickly enough to prevent large underpayments building up. RTI is being brought in to try and combat that problem and now you say the employers have problems during the tax year which no-one at HMRC is ready for.

Surely the employers have to get their act together too and prevent these problems arising?

antonic

jem16 wrote: »

So what do you expect to happen?

It seems that most people on here are complaining that HMRC don't sort out their tax affairs quickly enough to prevent large underpayments building up. RTI is being brought in to try and combat that problem and now you say the employers have problems during the tax year which no-one at HMRC is ready for.

Surely the employers have to get their act together too and prevent these problems arising?

Quite right Jem, but its always easier to blame someone else than take responsibility yourself.

elmerfudd_2

chrismac1 wrote: »

In fact most HMRC staff are only too happy to defend rubbish systems, rubbish performance, massive waiting queues and 20 minutes to answer the phone in my experience. It is always refreshing to talk to one of them who still lives in the real world.

You once again trot out the tired HMRC line that it's up to the client. My clients are first and foremost running businesses, making profits and paying taxes to keep bums on seats at HMRC Towers.

Typically their staff come along with "new employee" forms which have incorrect DoB, NI numbers and other misinformation. Note that this equally applies to the UK's largest employers, one of whom I worked for until 2009.

For example, when we used to do large scale payroll re-organisations quite often things would go awry mid-year. We'd have it sorted out by the end of the tax year, but meanwhile there would be problems. Under RTI all this duff gen gets thrown at the database. I have seen nothing to coming out of the pilot to convince me anyone at HMRC is ready for this.

Firstly, i doubt any HMRC employee is able to criticise anything, incuding tax agents and employers as they will be faced with disciplinary action if they do.

Secondly, you seem to say your clients are way too busy to submit accurate data to HMRC. Well i am afraid that part of running a business is collecting tax/NI and submitting correct data to HMRC. If they can't do the basics then maybe they should engage a different person to guide them??

John_Pierpoint

In the final analysis the responsibility is going to be pushed onto the ordinary citizen.
We have all got to wake up to the fact that we are spending nearly half out time financing the state and double check our personal identification numbers; including the rubbish National Insurance number, which does not even include the most simplistic of "check sum" (check digit) routines.

The Albanian Identity Number is a unique personal identification number of 10-characters in the format YYMMDDSSSC, where YYMMDD indicates the date of birth and sex (for males MM is 01-12, for females 50 is added to the month of birth so that MM is 51-62), SSS is a sequence number of persons born on the same date (001–999), and C is a checksum letter (A–W). The YY part of the date of birth is calculated from the following table:[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_identification_number

Savvy_Sue

chrismac1 wrote: »

Typically their staff come along with "new employee" forms which have incorrect DoB, NI numbers and other misinformation. Note that this equally applies to the UK's largest employers, one of whom I worked for until 2009.

I can't help feeling that if employees can't get their own DOB and NI number correct, it's a tad unfair to blame HMRC for using the information submitted.