Worrying letter from hm revenue really need advice please

chrismac1

My point is quite simply that HMRC throw ridiculous rules and regulations at small employers, Real Time Information simply being the last in a long line of them over the past ten years.

Then they don't perform even the most basic checks on whether what they are receiving is garbage or not, before spitting out assessments which 5 minutes spent checking them would have spotted were just plain daft.

In the old days these "double and treble the income" things would not have gone out. Someone in the local tax office would have said "No way can that be right, let's phone the employer and sort it."

Now HMRC simply hide behind their computers and 20 minute phone queues and wash their hands of the whole thing, spit penalty notices and assessments out left right and centre and call that a tax service.

It does not have to be like this. I've had regular dealings with the Revenue Service of Ireland and give them 8 out of 10 compared to 2 out of 10 for HMRC. For pity's sake, how can this country be setting our benchmark so much lower than the basket case economy across the Irish Sea?

antonic

No, Chrismac1 is quite happy for his clients to make these mistakes as he can then charge his clients for contacting HMRC, to sort out HIS clients mistakes.

Remember as well as there being some incompetant HMRC staff, there also some incompetant accountants.

chrismac1

Well the HMRC stooges are having a field day in this thread! The last one is factually inaccurate, as a fixed price accountant - whether incompetnt or not - there is no scope for me to increase my charges.

System

chrismac1 wrote: »

Well the HMRC stooges are having a field day in this thread! The last one is factually inaccurate, as a fixed price accountant - whether incompetnt or not - there is no scope for me to increase my charges.

While your anti HMRC rant is entertaining - it does nothing to help OP and it might be best kept for a different thread. Your advice would have sent OP looking in the wrong place and for completely the wrong issue. I'm just relieved they haven't paid for advice of that quality.

jem16

chrismac1 wrote: »

The last one is factually inaccurate, as a fixed price accountant - whether incompetnt or not - there is no scope for me to increase my charges.

Why do you not address the mistakes that your clients keep making? Are you afraid that they will no longer have need of your services in future?

Note I have no connection with HMRC at all. I do, hoever, have a brother who is a CA who does not have all of these problems with HMRC that you seem to have.

real1314

chrismac1 wrote: »

Then they don't perform even the most basic checks on whether what they are receiving is garbage or not, before spitting out assessments which 5 minutes spent checking them would have spotted were just plain daft.

If the basic checks would spot the error, why didn't the person submitting it, with far greater knowledge and understanding of the case concerned on an individual level, spot such an error?

You clearly have one rule for HMRC and another for employers/yourself. You should take a step back and think about whether you are allowing your prejudice to over-rule clarity of thinking. :cool:

real1314

chrismac1 wrote: »

Well the HMRC stooges are having a field day in this thread! The last one is factually inaccurate, as a fixed price accountant - whether incompetnt or not - there is no scope for me to increase my charges.

Brilliant, you've gone the newbie route and claimed that anyone who disagrees with you is a stooge. Grow up.

Fixed prices are based essentially on the work involved. If you are not setting the fixed price based on the quality of the information provided and complexity of the work involved, based on experience, then you are a very poor operator.

Do you charge the same for a sole trader as for a 50 employee enterprise?
Do you charge the same for a sole trader who provides all invoices/receipts in month by month order, reconciled to bank transactions, with a summary of movements, and no expense claims; as you would to a sole trader who just gives you a pile of invoices, receipts and bank statements, has motor expenses, home use, capital allowances and entertainment expenses?

You're either a fool or a liar.

:cool:

ceeforcat

antonic wrote: »

Remember as well as there being some incompetant HMRC staff, there also some incompetant accountants.

Very true - unfortunately it is impossible to compare the service provided by HMRC with that provided prior to, say, self assessment. When I left twenty-five years ago, it was possible to speak to an officer who personally looked after your tax affairs along with approximately 3000 others) and one could have expected a reply to a letter within two weeks. Now......

It is unfortunate that you have chosen to spell the word 'incompetent' incorrectly as it does not exactly add weight to your argument.

John_Pierpoint

The problem is at the top, where the guys who end up with an award from the Queen have totally failed to stand up to their political masters. They have failed to point out the reality of building up a tax system from about 25% of national income in the 1960s to a 50% rate now (when you include all the new (stealth) taxes, the taxes administered by local government, the VAT sent to the EU (so half of it can be sent back to landowners) and the new taxes administered by the power companies).

Tax payers eventually resent the advance of tax freedom day and the realisation that they, as employers, actually can earn foreign revenue for the country but are expected to work and train as un-paid tax gatherers; being instructed on what to do by other people who are paid 100% of their income to (in theory) understand the vagaries and absurdities of the world's second most complex tax system.

Bring back the days of Nigel Lawson, who buoyed up by North Sea oil revenues, was able to abolish a tax per year.

As a non professional I have no vested interest in the professional games and remuneration of poacher and game keeper - my motto would be that any tax should be capable of being explained to "the man on the Clapham Omnibus" within 15 minutes.

chrismac1

The reason why RTI is likely to be a total disaster is well shown by this thread. At all levels from Lin Homer down to the newest recruit, HMRC staff have in general got no clue whatsoever about what it's like running a business, small large or medium.

They spend their careers inside the detail of the UK tax system and still make basic errors routinely, yet expect a higher standard from business owners and their employees - and indeed "normal" taxpayers - for whom understanding the UK tax system is a minor part of their lives, hopefully.

Very very few of the HMRC people I deal with on a weekly basis have any notion that every single UK employer or VAT-registered business is acting as an unpaid tax collecter and hence funding their salary.