Whose fault was this one?

mikey72

Hoonercat wrote: »

..........The car driver doesn't appear to have the ability to anticipate hazards - no headlights, not using the safer route of the roundabout and not checking to the right before pulling out.

You are saying you would really consider a right turn from that service station to be such a hazard, you would always turn left, into a stopped queue of traffice, and wait in the queue, until you could get to the island and do a u turn?

When would you ever consider turning right across traffic, as I drive in worse than that every day, and I'd be queuing consstantly?

brat

Hoonercat wrote: »

There isn't, but it would have been the sensible thing to do.

It is an option to consider, I grant you, but the option to turn right there is certainly not an unreasonable option. Indeed the reason this eastbound lane is not officially two lane at this point is probably to facilitate egress from the pub and the petrol station.

Pretty much every other car had their full lights on. Sidelights would not have been powerful enough to shine a reflection on the wet road.

I counted 5 with headlights and four with sidelights, and the streetlights are off. I agree with the other poster regarding too much light pollution on the road, making other less illuminated road users harder to see.

The rider did see the car, certainly before the car saw the rider.

I'd sincerely hope he would. He should see him early, and, as we know, he should also be able to stop to protect himself and his no claims.

And if pulling out into a wide road then he should have been aware of the possibility that other vehicles could have been on the right, given that it's an approach to a roundabout.

Anyone who makes two lanes out of one has to be aware of the risks he is placing himself in. That activity becomes overtaking or filtering (dependant on speed) and is subject to the HC constraints detailed above.

Lum

Turning left and then doing a U turn is a bit of a red herring suggestion tbh.

at 0:53 in that video we see that because the lane is so wide, right-turning cars do the exact same same thing as the motorbike and filter past, so if the driver of that estate car did plan to turn left and then use the roundabout how do you think they'd go about it? Sit in the queue? Nah they'd turn left into the second not-a-lane and still have hit the biker.

In the real world, people only turn left and then U turn at the roundabout if doing so is quicker or easier than making a right turn, such as when the chances of traffic in both directions actually bothering to let you out are slim.

Hoonercat

mikey72 wrote: »

You are saying you would really consider a right turn from that service station to be such a hazard, you would always turn left, into a stopped queue of traffice, and wait in the queue, until you could get to the island and do a u turn?

When would you ever consider turning right across traffic, as I drive in worse than that every day, and I'd be queuing consstantly?

No, I'm saying that if a safer alternative was available, such as the nearby roundabout, then I would choose that route. A couple of minutes added to my journey is nothing if it avoids the possibility of ruining someone's life. If I have to make a right turn I certainly wouldn't carry out the maneuver in one go as the car driver did, I would inch out very slowly giving any approaching traffic time to see me and give way. As I said, the car had reached the middle of the road when the accident occurred, the view was not blocked and the driver should have seen to bike had he/she been looking right and checking that it was safe to proceed.
To the OP, do the road markings split into more than one lane on approach to the roundabout with the road widening before this? I wouldn't consider the bike to be 'filtering' as cars are following him so there is clearly enough space for 2 lines of traffic on the approach to the roundabout. It would be helpful if you could paste a Google link to the spot where this happened.

[Deleted User]

Car driver at fault.

He was entering the road, so it's his/her responsibility to ensure it is safe to do so.

Hoonercat

Lum wrote: »

Nah they'd turn left into the second not-a-lane and still have hit the biker.

Not if they'd had the awareness to check to the right before pulling out. Anyone who doesn't/wouldn't check to the right is clearly lacking the ability to consider other road users as well as the potential for an incident.

brat

Hoonercat wrote: »

To the OP, do the road markings split into more than one lane on approach to the roundabout with the road widening before this? I wouldn't consider the bike to be 'filtering' as cars are following him so there is clearly enough space for 2 lines of traffic on the approach to the roundabout. It would be helpful if you could paste a Google link to the spot where this happened.

I still can't post links, but it's the A27 Bridge Road, Southampton, approaching the roundabout with the A3051 Botley Road.

Hoonercat

Hopefully the link works
https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Bridge+Rd,+Southampton,+BP+petrol&hl=en&ll=50.870864,-1.265164&spn=0.000723,0.001377&sll=50.87259,-1.26405&sspn=0.011564,0.022037&geocode=CcpP3SCztcZXFTZOCAMd_mns_yllyrzUzG90SDEhh6ZpiW4HBg&hq=BP+petrol&hnear=Bridge+Rd,+Southampton,+United+Kingdom&t=k&z=20

I must admit that on first seeing the road layout I was swaying, as I had thought the road was straight and the lane split markings would have been closer. But, in the same position, with heavy traffic on the left, I think most of us would have done the same as the bike rider, rather than sit in the traffic waiting until I reached the white lines in the road.
Morally, I still think the fault is with the car driver who did have the opportunity to see the bike before the accident but failed to do so. If he/she hadn't been so far out into the road then they would have my sympathy, but I don't think they took enough care when leaving the petrol station.

brat

The right hand entry lane at the RAB is for the quieter Hunt's Pont Road, and the exit from the RAB to the A27 Southampton Rd is single lane. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the more assertive motorists create a second lane on Bridge Road to gain the opportunity to get to the front of the queue at the roundabout, then use their acceleration and assertiveness (bullying) to push back into lane for the A27.

This will be one further reason why highways will be keen to retain Bridge Road e/b as one lane, because there is probably almost no reason other than self importance for a motorist to want to get to the roundabout more quickly than all those in the queue.

BertTheRaccoon

brat wrote: »

You're not actually saying why you disagree. Try to explain the specific reasons for your disagreement.

Unfortunately we'll not ever get to know how this pans out.

1 - The rider is riding along the offside of the stationary/ slow moving traffic at a speed that was not excessive.

2- He was positioned towards the crown of the road and as far from the side of the traffic he was passing, thus affording himself the maximum view of any traffic emerging and also giving himself maximum exposure to anyone pulling out.

3- There was acres of space that he was riding in, it was hardly skimming past the wing mirrors of the queued traffic and the fact that some cars followed behind the biker suggests that it would be local custom for there to be a queued lane and other vehicles passing down the offside. Thus raising the expectation of the plonker pulling out that there could be vehicles coming along the side of the queued vehicles.

4- The rider had his lights on, the car did not.

5- The car driver simply relied on a gap left as an assumption that everything was alright. They completely breached their duty of care when pulling out to exercise extreme caution.

6- The car driver just pulled out in one continuous movement at an excessive speed, rather then very slowly and gradually creeping forwards.

7- The queued vehicles were all cars, so no trucks or large vehicles obscuring view, so afforded them a better chance of seeing anything coming, yet clearly failed to see the biker, most likely because they were too busy looking to their left before reaching the centre of the road.

8- The car driver emerged at an angle, which reduced their field of vision more than if they pulled across the traffic at a right angle, which would have prevented the nose from sticking out as far and give them an earlier view of approaching traffic.

9- This wasn't just a "nose poker" it was a deluded idiot just bulldozing their way out without forethought.

I maintain the car driver takes the lions share of blame for this.