Whose fault was this one?

oldhand

ukjoel wrote: »

Caught this one on my car cam this morning.

At the time I thought the driver pulling out was to blame but bearing in mind the road conditions, and the fact traffic had all stopped to let him out I am now thinking the motorbike was mainly responsible.

Felt sorry for the car driver as I think 90% of us in his situation would have had a similar problem.

Legally I guess its the cars fault but morally its open.


Not sure re whos to blame but your video footage was pretty impressive,could you tell me the make of cam and rough cost? Its put me in mind to get one for my own car.

ukjoel

It cost the grand sum of £25 and there is a link to it in a post at the bottom of page one of the posts. The setting it was on yesterday was the lowest of the 3 settings and last night I lifted it to the higher setting as while it did the job yesterday it would have been better if it had caught number plates and a little more detail. I have a 16gb memory card (SD card I think) and that was recording something like 20-30 hours of driving before it overwrote the oldest recordings. I think on the high definition settings it will be good for 15 hours at a time on a card that size before automatically overwriting.

It plugs into the car charger (via a mini usb slot in the camera) and comes with a decent window mount as well.

Cheers

BertTheRaccoon

Anyone running Iphone or android, this app is well worth it by the looks of it.

http://www.witnessphoneapp.com/

Before any of the crew charge in and accuse me of pimping a product or service, I have absolutely nothing to do with it. I saw it featured on 5th Gear the other week. Some folks may find it useful.

maninthestreet

Hooloovoo wrote: »

Yes. Still a busy junction.

It's no more a road junction than where the drive I have meets the road at the front of my house. Do you see any warning signs for a road junction on the left in the video on the approach petrol station?

Hooloovoo

maninthestreet wrote: »

It's no more a road junction than where the drive I have meets the road at the front of my house. Do you see any warning signs for a road junction on the left in the video on the approach petrol station?

So because there are no warning signs, and because it's not a road, you would consider that a suitable place to perform an overtaking manoeuvre?

Despite the highly visible garage, despite the gap in the traffic, and despite the very high probability of someone emerging from that gap without being able to see properly.

Even if that overtaking manoeuvre is done using a second lane that may or may not be available.

Care needed to be taken. The bike did not take enough care and paid the price. As I said, that doesn't necessarily make him liable, but he certainly wasn't riding defensively and doing everything he could to compensate for and limit the impact of the mistakes of others.

johnfarquhar74

harveybobbles wrote: »

However, the motorcycle should have been paying more/better attention to the road as there was:

A line of slow moving cars (pedestrians cutting theu etc?)
A petrol station
A roundabout
Lots of rain
..

You sure about that? If you think that's lots of rain then we must have a tropical climate up here North of the border
I've only watched the video once on my mobile and ukjoel's windscreen wipers only seem to be wiping intermittently, that's not to say how much, or little, the motorcyclist could see if his visor was wet/fogged up?!?

ukjoel

There was lots of rain bearing in mind its Southampton. We dont really do rain down here.

Just a quick update - police called back today and asked if they can pass my details on to the drivers and their respective insurance companies.

Injurys were restricted to a sprained ankle and a couple of broken indicators on the bike.

No police charges anticipated for either driver as crashes like this are pretty common.

BertTheRaccoon

Put it this way, if I was asked which party's claim I would take on, I'd take the bikers claim any day of the week.

brat

ukjoel wrote: »

There was lots of rain bearing in mind its Southampton. We dont really do rain down here.

Just a quick update - police called back today and asked if they can pass my details on to the drivers and their respective insurance companies.

Injurys were restricted to a sprained ankle and a couple of broken indicators on the bike.

No police charges anticipated for either driver as crashes like this are pretty common.

You are right, it is a very common type of accident, and the insurers will happily refer to any relevant case law, which very conveniently exists in the shape of Powell v Moody 1966. This case law deals with an almost identical case, and finds 80/20 in favour of the car driver. In his summing up the judge deemed that the motorbike rider must be incredibly careful when overtaking when he cannot see what is in front of him.

Unless there is strong evidence that the either driver was more negligent in this case than the PvM case, the insurers will use that 80/20 decision to inform their decision. From watching the video, the bike rider would appear to be more to blame than in the Powell v Moody case, because he was probably overtaking more quickly.

maninthestreet

Hooloovoo wrote: »

So because there are no warning signs, and because it's not a road, you would consider that a suitable place to perform an overtaking manoeuvre?

Despite the highly visible garage, despite the gap in the traffic, and despite the very high probability of someone emerging from that gap without being able to see properly.

Even if that overtaking manoeuvre is done using a second lane that may or may not be available.

Care needed to be taken. The bike did not take enough care and paid the price. As I said, that doesn't necessarily make him liable, but he certainly wasn't riding defensively and doing everything he could to compensate for and limit the impact of the mistakes of others.

The motot cyclist would not be able to see the gap in the stationary traffic, as this was obscured by the traffic.

Rule 211 of the HW code states:

It is often difficult to see motorcyclists and cyclists, especially when they are coming up from behind, coming out of junctions, at roundabouts, overtaking you or filtering through traffic. Always look out for them before you emerge from a junction; they could be approaching faster than you think. When turning right across a line of slow-moving or stationary traffic, look out for cyclists or motorcyclists on the inside of the traffic you are crossing. Be especially careful when turning, and when changing direction or lane. Be sure to check mirrors and blind spots carefully.