Whose fault was this one?

Hooloovoo

I think we can all agree there is a lot the motorcyclist could have done to prevent the accident - defensive driving is the main principle of advanced driving.

He could see the garage. He could see the gap in the traffic. He should have anticipated a car pulling out and been riding more slowly to be ready to stop when the car inevitability doesn't see him. As a driver I'm usually covering the brake in those conditions, especially knowing that I'm approaching a roundabout and so will have to slow anyway.

None of that in any way makes the biker liable for the collision.

NBLondon

My reading is that the car emerging from the garage drove out into the gap that had been left open for him and was probably looking leftwards for a gap in the other side to slot into without any/enough glances back right for an overtaking bike. He should have inched forward until he could see both directions.

I agree with Hooloovoo that the bike could/should have read the road better and been prepared for someone doing just that.

harveybobbles

If you look at 0:33 you wil lsee the car pulling out of the petrol station looks like they have to change the angle of their car as if they were squeezing thru a gap or the car on the road was blocking the exit. So you could blame either of them.

The car pulling out should have waited until it was easier to pull out perhaps? If they were squeezing thru a small gap then their view of the road would be reduced and, until they had their nose fully into the road, wouldnt have been able to clearly see (which is what happened here..)

However, the motorcycle should have been paying more/better attention to the road as there was:

A line of slow moving cars (pedestrians cutting theu etc?)
A petrol station
A roundabout
Lots of rain

Given the fact a bike rider can see over the tops of the cars .

I'd blame the bike..

mkirkby

atrixblue.-MFR-. wrote: »

the passat driver is sat lower, is an obscured view, he pauses (as traffic is stopped) he quietly menouvers out into the traffic.

combitnation of both laspses to me says they are both at fault here.

Both have to take a bit of the blame but it's the car that takes almost all of it. Looking at the footage it's almost certain that as the car was pulling out, they would have been looking left to check traffic approaching from that side and to check it was safe to enter the flow of traffic.

Hooloovoo

NBLondon wrote: »

without any/enough glances back right for an overtaking bike.

I think the key issue here is whether you class the bike as overtaking or not.

The OP has said it is marked out as a single lane up until you get to the island. In which case the bike is overtaking, to make it worse overtaking near a junction, and therefore has to take on some, if not all, the responsibility. Despite the fact the road is clearly very wide, if it's marked out as one lane then by definition he must be overtaking.

I had assumed from the video that there were two lanes, and the car had cleared the first lane before then pulling out into the second lane without ensuring it was clear.

I take back post #4 where I said there was no doubt that it was the car at fault.

But nevertheless, on the balance of probabilities I'd still blame the driver.

Paperbird

Car driver at fault. The car following the bike shows it's wide enough for two lanes even if it's not marked. Once the front of his car was level with the off side of the car letting him out he should have stopped then moved forward slowly until he could see it was clear.

maninthestreet

Think once, Think twice....Think Bike!!!

The car driver is at fault.

maninthestreet

Hooloovoo wrote: »

I think the key issue here is whether you class the bike as overtaking or not.

The OP has said it is marked out as a single lane up until you get to the island. In which case the bike is overtaking, to make it worse overtaking near a junction, and therefore has to take on some, if not all, the responsibility. Despite the fact the road is clearly very wide, if it's marked out as one lane then by definition he must be overtaking.

I had assumed from the video that there were two lanes, and the car had cleared the first lane before then pulling out into the second lane without ensuring it was clear.

I take back post #4 where I said there was no doubt that it was the car at fault.

But nevertheless, on the balance of probabilities I'd still blame the driver.

That 'road junction' you refer to seems to be the entrance/exit to the petrol station.

Hooloovoo

maninthestreet wrote: »

That 'road junction' you refer to seems to be the entrance/exit to the petrol station.

Yes. Still a busy junction.

NBLondon

Hooloovoo wrote: »

I think the key issue here is whether you class the bike as overtaking or not.

??? The bike is passing cars on their right hand side. That's overtaking whether they are passing in the same lane or the next lane or on the wrong side of the road...

You're right that the bike wasn't overtaking particularly safely. I drive in London and I see this a hell of lot - both pedal and motor. So the car should have been more aware of this possibility and the bike should have been more aware of the possibility of a car coming out of the petrol station.

I'm reminded of something my Dad said when I was learning to drive - "Even if you have right of way, check the other way in case the Professionals are coming round the corner!"