Girl Guides membership - our daughter cannot join?

dizsiebubba

tea_lover wrote: »

... and there are over 44000 girls on waiting lists for either Rainbows, Brownies or Guides. So clearly having a girls-only space is incredibly important for a lot of girls.

My own unit has 43 names on the waiting list... :eek:

However as you can see from my signature... I may soon be turning to scouting instead!

kingfisherblue

dizsiebubba wrote: »

My own unit has 43 names on the waiting list... :eek:

However as you can see from my signature... I may soon be turning to scouting instead!

Don't do that, we need all the good leaders that we can get

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

Person_one wrote: »

Are you sure?

I was the first girl in my scout pack (well, me and the leader's daughter). We asked, they said ok, then we had to wait to actually start until they could find a woman willing to be a leader. Pretty much the opposite of your experience.

Rightly or wrongly, the number of 'issues' regarding scout leaders meant that a) there was a rapid decline in the numbers of men wanting to become scout leaders at the same time as b) an increase in the number of men who had been scout leaders were leaving/retiring - which meant there was a significant reduction in male leaders which had to be filled by women.

There has not been the same degree of concerns expressed/court cases about female leaders in the guide association. Or female leaders in the Scout Association. This may very well be unfair, but perhaps statistics regarding the number of reports and convictions of abuse in one organisation far outweigh the reports in the other.

In any case, whilst there was a need for extra helpers (who wanted their daughters to attend as well), there wasn't a huge shortage of female Senior Section members of the Guide Association. So there was no bargaining chip to say 'we need men, so we need to accept their sons to continue'.



However, once you get to Ventures/Rangers, it's often mixed. And if it were truly wrong to separate boys and girls, single sex schools would be illegal.




I'm not saying this is right. But it's the circumstances that led to women being accepted as leaders and their daughters being permitted entry.

Person_one

Jojo_the_Tightfisted wrote: »

I'm not saying this is right. But it's the circumstances that led to women being accepted as leaders and their daughters being permitted entry.

I wasn't aware of most of that. The pack I joined had only recently got rid of a !!!!!phile 'Skip' so we never used that term for the leaders, and looking back getting some girls in and a few female leaders probably did help in getting the numbers back up now I think about it.

It actually would be nice if guides opened up to boys. Just as there are girls like me who hated setting out a tea tray and learning to cleanse and tone I'm sure there are lots of boys around who would hate starting fires in the rain and playing British Bulldogs and would much prefer a gentler, more civilised group!

(Single sex schools are wrong, lots of things that are wrong are legal. )

kingfisherblue

Person_one, you seem to think that Guides is all about serving tea and learning how to pamper yourself. It isn't. Many Guide units camp out (yes, in the rain :eek:), learn how to build a campfire, cook outdoors, pitch tents, etc. This has always been the case. By the end of 1910, there were 22 interest badges, which included Sailor, Telegraphist and Electrician - activities that were definitely not seen as feminine back then! Other popular activities included camping, cycling, stretcher work and gymnastics, at a time when these were almost exclusively male pursuits.

Olave Baden-Powell, Robert's wife, was a keen camper and traveller. B-P's sister, Agnes, encouraged girls to learn about motor cars, learn to drive, and to aspire to a career instead of just taking a job. This is all before 1920. She last camped under canvas at the age of 77, nine years before she died.

Guiding is about having fun, learning new skills, sharing new experiences, and enjoying a girl only space. It isn't about making cups of tea, although we do teach Brownies to do that safely.

poet123

We regularly camped out, went canoeing, orienteering, and sailing, the only domestic badge I ever did was Jam making!:rotfl: never made any since, but have done all of the outdoor activities.

Person_one

kingfisherblue wrote: »

Person_one, you seem to think that Guides is all about serving tea and learning how to pamper yourself. It isn't. Many Guide units camp out (yes, in the rain :eek:), learn how to build a campfire, cook outdoors, pitch tents, etc. This has always been the case. By the end of 1910, there were 22 interest badges, which included Sailor, Telegraphist and Electrician - activities that were definitely not seen as feminine back then! Other popular activities included camping, cycling, stretcher work and gymnastics, at a time when these were almost exclusively male pursuits.

Olave Baden-Powell, Robert's wife, was a keen camper and traveller. B-P's sister, Agnes, encouraged girls to learn about motor cars, learn to drive, and to aspire to a career instead of just taking a job. This is all before 1920. She last camped under canvas at the age of 77, nine years before she died.

Guiding is about having fun, learning new skills, sharing new experiences, and enjoying a girl only space. It isn't about making cups of tea, although we do teach Brownies to do that safely.

Well, I'm far too old to join now, so you don't really need to go into the sales pitch.

I only went to one pack, for two weeks, so that's all I have experience of. The first week we learned how to use cleanser and toner, the second week we learned how to lay out a tea tray. Both weeks we ate digestives and orange juice at an imaginary table and girls got shouted at for leaning too far over it.

Maybe there was something really cool planned for the third week, maybe I missed out on years of fun, maybe other packs would have been completely different, but I was 10 and there was no way I was going back.


(This is bringing back memories, I now remember doing the 'hostess' badge at Brownies and having to borrow an actual hostess trolley, learning how to polish metal using Brasso, and how to handwash clothes with a little sample of washing powder from home! This was the nineties! I wonder if my mum still has my sash to look at the badges I got...)

stationaryace

wow, off topic much?

OP speak to the leader and the district commissioner in private. Explain the situation. In all likelihood the DC will tell the leader that she's being overzealous. If not, you could speak to the country commissioner about this (one above DC) but it depends how far you want to take it- it could be that if you have to cause a fuss, your daughter might feel uncomfortable and not want to go.

In the mean time there should be no problem with her continuing to go to Guides each week. So long as she's happy, that's the main thing.

I was a Brownie, then a Guide (at which point I helped out at Brownies as a Young Leader), then moved to Senior Section whilst being Assistant Guider for Brownies, then started my own Guide pack. I often had to make allowances for various religions - ie with certain girls skipping the Halloween party due to it being a pagan ritual, other missing the Christmas panto outing - but this shouldn't be any different.

sharnad

I wasn't a Christian and I was allowed to join the guides after brownies. I do t think anyone mentioned GOd to me

purplepegasus25

Thanks to those who’ve put informed, sensible comments on here. I started quoting the not so informed comments but tbh unfortunately there’s just too many, it’s a shame the only comments some people could make is to belittle others comments’

My view/hopefully informed decision in summary:

This is not the guide leader making up rules or making life difficult just for fun, it’s the association’s current stance.

This has been featured in the press several times, and another 'sad faced child' will not make any difference. The current promise which includes the phrase ‘love my god’ – which requires a belief in a god is being reviewed, maybe things these days are different and a change should be made but this needs to be done by the association and consultation of the membership; you don’t just change things that have been that way for 101 years overnight!

Every brownie/guide/cub/scout unit is different. Yes some units depending on the majority demand and the leaders may be more based on games and crafts but this is not the same for every group. Lots of units do just as much and of the same type of activities as scout groups.

As some by some posts Scouts also have a requirement for a spiritual belief.

As one poster has mentioned ‘There is not actually a requirement to make the Promise as a Guide.’ But it should be noted that GGUK requires ‘Guides work towards making, or reaffirm, the Promise.’

Anyway when all the valid arguments and derogatory comments on this subject have died down hopefully GGUK will have had chance to review and decide for themselves what’s best for their association without the mudslinging and press involvement. Oh yes, until the argument about accepting boys comes up again Well for a organisation which already has long waiting lists and not enough volunteers accepting more kids of either gender would be hard. Not to mention it’s not just the girls who want a ‘girl only space’ at the point in time I as a leader have to deal with boys of the same age as my girls I can see the dynamic shifting entirely to one I personally wouldn’t want to work with so they’d be another leader down I’m afraid!