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Towel rail corroding after 10 months!
onejontwo
Posts: 1,089 Forumite
[IMG][/img]
I'm hoping for some input from the knowledgeable people on this forum regarding a towel rail fitted only 10 months ago.
I'll try to keep it brief but basically we had a new bathroom designed and fitted around November last year at a cost of £5000. But just recently we've noticed the towel rail corroding around the bottom corner on the front and back of the towel rail. We regularly polish the chrome towel rail as recommended and the rest of the towel rail is fine.
At this point I contacted the company who designed and fitted the bathroom, and they passed me on to the towel rail manufacturer.
The e-mail they sent seems to be pointing the blame on us ie.
inadequate ventilation, failure to maintain and most importantly not using a corrosion inhibitor in the central heating system, which invalidates the warranty (If this is the case it certainly wasn't pointed out to us at the point of installation.)
So in a nutshell they say they'll pay for a new one if it's a manufacturing defect but if not it's chargeable to us.
The central heating system has been in the house since we moved in about 12 years ago and we have no paperwork to say what ,if any ,corrosion inhibitor is in the system.
One thing to add though is that all the radiators are original since we moved in and showing no signs of corrosion which suggests to me that there are no "ferric iron compounds" (their words not mine)
in the system otherwise the radiators would be corroding and springing leaks after all this time.
Also in my opinion the chrome covering seems to have started to peel away and in so doing exposing the bare metal to a bathroom environment which will inevitably rust. Whereas they insist the towel rail has corroded from the inside, but surely this would result in a leak as the inner and outer walls would have corroded.
Thanks in anticipation for any advice received.
I'll try and include photos and the relevant e-mail from the manufacturer.
e-mail received:-
[IMG][/img]
We feel that it is important that we try to inform the end user when purchasing our towel warmers, in order to explain some of the issues that can arise with these products.
Firstly we need to stress that both our chrome and white towel warmers are produced using some of the world’s most advanced processes in producing these products. They are pressure tested three times during the production and quality control processes. For our chrome radiators, our chrome plating is one of the most advanced of any manufacturer, using a nickel, nickel plating technique for advanced chroming quality, and for our painted radiators, they go through an intensive priming and preparation process prior to being coated using one of the world’s leading paint products. In addition we use very high grade steel (for example the horizontal bars on our rails are 1.2mm as opposed to 0.9 / 1.0mm for most competitors’ products) and our joints are manually welded for additional strength. To this end we are proud to offer our extensive warranty covering manufacturing defects on all our products.
Having said all that, these products are made from mild steel and are generally installed in a wet, damp atmosphere (i.e. a bathroom) so they tend to be at the mercy of whatever they are exposed to, both internally and externally. This is why we stress in our instructions that the care of the towel warmer is adhered to as most of the ‘faults’ we have reported on installed products are due to system conditions as opposed to manufacturing defects which are covered by the warranty. As a towel warmer is probably the most vulnerable item on a heating system, it is very important that it is cared for both externally (by the periodic cleaning with the appropriate products to protect the finish) and also internally (by the proper treatment of the heating system water in accordance with BS 7593:2006). This is extremely important and is a condition of our warranty as if you have a heating system which contains levels of ferric iron compounds (magnetite) then this will potentially destroy all mild steel radiators from the inside out regardless of the quality of the product. Towel warmers also tend to be even more vulnerable as they are normally located at the ‘top’ of the heating system and they get air / oxygen in them first. This happens especially over the summer months when heating systems are generally not in use.
In the case of this particular rail, it unfortunately appears to have been subject to continuous moisture on the area around the bottom tapping of the radiator. Generally when rust appears at the bottom of a towel warmer like this the cause is one of three things:-
1) Condensation being left of the radiator for long periods of time without the radiator being warm or allowed to dry. This is the least likely cause as normally rust spots would appear elsewhere on the radiator if this was the case.
2) A weep has occurred on the valve thread and water from the heating system has leak which causes rust to develop and spread across the bottom of the D section. This can be quite common (especially on sealed heating systems). Fernox do manufacture a product called LS1 leak sealer which can help this problem.
3) More seriously the bottom of the rail could have been attacked internally from water containing high ferric iron content. This would generally indicate a lack of inhibitor protecting the system and / or too much oxygen in the system. This can also often happen if the towel warmer has not been blead regularly. Quite often a leak would appear in this case.
Very much like a chrome bumper on a car if water / condensate like this is left too long on the surface of the rail then rust will develop and eventually eat into the surface causing permanent damage. Enclosed are some images of towel warmers that have experienced internal corrosion and a tapping leak.
Due to the nature of this fault it is very likely that one of the above is the cause of this problem and thus extremely unlikely that this fault is caused by a manufacturing defect covered under warranty. In addition it is quite likely that the water in the heating system needs checking to ensure that the heating system complies with BS7593:2006 which is a condition of the warranty. This is not only important for the towel warmer warranty, but also even more importantly for the protection of the boiler and other components on the heating system.
I hope this all makes sense but generally the basic conclusions are as follows:-
a) Whilst we are happy to uplift and inspect the towel warmer, it is very likely in this instance that the surface rusting has been caused by the issues described above and is not a manufacturing defect covered under warranty.
b) Should we find that the product does not have a manufacturing fault and is therefore not covered by the warranty, whilst we cannot offer a free of charge replacement we do appreciate your custom and as a gesture of goodwill we would be happy to offer a replacement product at a discounted rate. In addition we would stress that care and maintenance procedures be adhered to which should give you years of trouble free use from the towel warmer.
I hope that this information is beneifical & I look forward to hearing your customers preferred course of action.
In the meantime if you have any queries or require further information please do not hesitate to contact me.
I'm hoping for some input from the knowledgeable people on this forum regarding a towel rail fitted only 10 months ago.I'll try to keep it brief but basically we had a new bathroom designed and fitted around November last year at a cost of £5000. But just recently we've noticed the towel rail corroding around the bottom corner on the front and back of the towel rail. We regularly polish the chrome towel rail as recommended and the rest of the towel rail is fine.
At this point I contacted the company who designed and fitted the bathroom, and they passed me on to the towel rail manufacturer.
The e-mail they sent seems to be pointing the blame on us ie.
inadequate ventilation, failure to maintain and most importantly not using a corrosion inhibitor in the central heating system, which invalidates the warranty (If this is the case it certainly wasn't pointed out to us at the point of installation.)
So in a nutshell they say they'll pay for a new one if it's a manufacturing defect but if not it's chargeable to us.
The central heating system has been in the house since we moved in about 12 years ago and we have no paperwork to say what ,if any ,corrosion inhibitor is in the system.
One thing to add though is that all the radiators are original since we moved in and showing no signs of corrosion which suggests to me that there are no "ferric iron compounds" (their words not mine)
in the system otherwise the radiators would be corroding and springing leaks after all this time.
Also in my opinion the chrome covering seems to have started to peel away and in so doing exposing the bare metal to a bathroom environment which will inevitably rust. Whereas they insist the towel rail has corroded from the inside, but surely this would result in a leak as the inner and outer walls would have corroded.
Thanks in anticipation for any advice received.
I'll try and include photos and the relevant e-mail from the manufacturer.
e-mail received:-
[IMG][/img]
We feel that it is important that we try to inform the end user when purchasing our towel warmers, in order to explain some of the issues that can arise with these products.
Firstly we need to stress that both our chrome and white towel warmers are produced using some of the world’s most advanced processes in producing these products. They are pressure tested three times during the production and quality control processes. For our chrome radiators, our chrome plating is one of the most advanced of any manufacturer, using a nickel, nickel plating technique for advanced chroming quality, and for our painted radiators, they go through an intensive priming and preparation process prior to being coated using one of the world’s leading paint products. In addition we use very high grade steel (for example the horizontal bars on our rails are 1.2mm as opposed to 0.9 / 1.0mm for most competitors’ products) and our joints are manually welded for additional strength. To this end we are proud to offer our extensive warranty covering manufacturing defects on all our products.
Having said all that, these products are made from mild steel and are generally installed in a wet, damp atmosphere (i.e. a bathroom) so they tend to be at the mercy of whatever they are exposed to, both internally and externally. This is why we stress in our instructions that the care of the towel warmer is adhered to as most of the ‘faults’ we have reported on installed products are due to system conditions as opposed to manufacturing defects which are covered by the warranty. As a towel warmer is probably the most vulnerable item on a heating system, it is very important that it is cared for both externally (by the periodic cleaning with the appropriate products to protect the finish) and also internally (by the proper treatment of the heating system water in accordance with BS 7593:2006). This is extremely important and is a condition of our warranty as if you have a heating system which contains levels of ferric iron compounds (magnetite) then this will potentially destroy all mild steel radiators from the inside out regardless of the quality of the product. Towel warmers also tend to be even more vulnerable as they are normally located at the ‘top’ of the heating system and they get air / oxygen in them first. This happens especially over the summer months when heating systems are generally not in use.
In the case of this particular rail, it unfortunately appears to have been subject to continuous moisture on the area around the bottom tapping of the radiator. Generally when rust appears at the bottom of a towel warmer like this the cause is one of three things:-
1) Condensation being left of the radiator for long periods of time without the radiator being warm or allowed to dry. This is the least likely cause as normally rust spots would appear elsewhere on the radiator if this was the case.
2) A weep has occurred on the valve thread and water from the heating system has leak which causes rust to develop and spread across the bottom of the D section. This can be quite common (especially on sealed heating systems). Fernox do manufacture a product called LS1 leak sealer which can help this problem.
3) More seriously the bottom of the rail could have been attacked internally from water containing high ferric iron content. This would generally indicate a lack of inhibitor protecting the system and / or too much oxygen in the system. This can also often happen if the towel warmer has not been blead regularly. Quite often a leak would appear in this case.
Very much like a chrome bumper on a car if water / condensate like this is left too long on the surface of the rail then rust will develop and eventually eat into the surface causing permanent damage. Enclosed are some images of towel warmers that have experienced internal corrosion and a tapping leak.
Due to the nature of this fault it is very likely that one of the above is the cause of this problem and thus extremely unlikely that this fault is caused by a manufacturing defect covered under warranty. In addition it is quite likely that the water in the heating system needs checking to ensure that the heating system complies with BS7593:2006 which is a condition of the warranty. This is not only important for the towel warmer warranty, but also even more importantly for the protection of the boiler and other components on the heating system.
I hope this all makes sense but generally the basic conclusions are as follows:-
a) Whilst we are happy to uplift and inspect the towel warmer, it is very likely in this instance that the surface rusting has been caused by the issues described above and is not a manufacturing defect covered under warranty.
b) Should we find that the product does not have a manufacturing fault and is therefore not covered by the warranty, whilst we cannot offer a free of charge replacement we do appreciate your custom and as a gesture of goodwill we would be happy to offer a replacement product at a discounted rate. In addition we would stress that care and maintenance procedures be adhered to which should give you years of trouble free use from the towel warmer.
I hope that this information is beneifical & I look forward to hearing your customers preferred course of action.
In the meantime if you have any queries or require further information please do not hesitate to contact me.
0
Comments
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As the rust is on the very edge, a likely cause is that the rail was dropped or damaged before it was installed, causing a scratch or chip which has subsequently rusted.
Could have been the installers, or while being delivered etc.0 -
Can't help with getting a refund etc, but if you do end up replacing it, consider a stainless steel one. Appearancewise they look identical but they are rust proof and also better at giving out heat than the chrome equivalent. Ours came with a lifetime guarantee!Adventure before Dementia!0
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or in the factory and QC missed it. Its almost certainly not from inside to out though. Lurve the manufacturers BS though.Could have been the installers, or while being delivered etc.
Keep at 'em but I don't think you'll win TBH.
CheersThe difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has it's limits. - Einstein0 -
Installers not that brilliant either. Tail isn't square in rad and pipework [STRIKE]is p.ssed[/STRIKE] isn't vertical.
CheersThe difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has it's limits. - Einstein0 -
I've got a cheap chrome towel rail - not a plumbed in thing, just a rail. It's been there since before we moved in 10 years ago and we use the bathroom daily. There's no rust on it! Your rust is too isolated to be a result of the general dampness or even a leak, which would cause a ring of rust all around the fitting.
Looking at your pic, it does look slightly off the vertical. I would say the installer scraped the chrome surface with his wrench when tightening the nut and it's allowed moisture to get under the chrome and start rusting the pipe. The "corrosion inhibitor" defence is utter nonsense. This is to protect the inside of the system, not the outside surface. Even if you didn't have inhibitor, it would take years to rust through a pipe. They'll know that full well, so it clearly indicates an attempt to fob you off. In fact, their whole reply is nonsense. "At the mercy of the bathroom"? Of course, if only you'd installed it in the living room, you fools! Did you specify the make of towel rail you wanted? If you didn't, then they'll probably have fitted the cheapest one they could find, possibly from Screwfix or Wickes, with a poor chrome plate. The fact that you paid £5k doesn't mean they'll have fitted good stuff. I'd go back to them with a charge of poor workmanship and if they still try to fob you off, go to a solicitor before the 12 months is up.0 -
I'd go back to them with a charge of poor workmanship and if they still try to fob you off, go to a solicitor before the 12 months is up.
Am I right in thinking OP should go back to the company that designed and installed the bathroom? The fact that that company chose to forward the issue on doesn't absolve them of responsibility, so OP shouldn't have to deal with the manufacturer direct, should he? Either there's a defect in the quality of the radiator, or it was damaged by the installers, but the company he bought from should be responsible for both of those.0 -
Pure unadulterated speculation will certainly get them rolling over for their tummy to be tickled.I would say the installer scraped the chrome surface with his wrench when tightening the nut and it's allowed moisture to get under the chrome and start rusting the pipe.
Good luck with that one. Having seriously p.$$ed them off how do you propose to answer the "and your evidence for this accusation is" question?I'd go back to them with a charge of poor workmanship and if they still try to fob you off, go to a solicitor before the 12 months is up.
CheersThe difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has it's limits. - Einstein0 -
Good question. OP said design and install. OP didn't say design, supply and install. OP may have bought the elements himself but then he's between a rock and a hard place and it remains to be proven whether it was faulty material or careless workmanship. Incidentally the manufacturers response is just a bit too pat. Its almost as if they churn out this reply constantly which suggests (but doesn't prove) a constant stream of manufacturing defects. I don't remember any suggestion in the company's response that they were shovelling blame at the installer.jumpedtheshark wrote: »Am I right in thinking OP should go back to the company that designed and installed the bathroom?
There is no point in leaving it like that as it will just get worse and worse. The eventual quid pro quo is probably OP procures another rad at quite a discount as offered by the manufacturer and free issues it to the installers who install it for free.
An interesting point is that the manufacturers email seems to have been addressed to the installer rather than the OP as it requests their "customers preferred course of action"
CheersThe difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has it's limits. - Einstein0 -
The chrome coating has been chipped off due to damage. Probably hit with a spanner. This will result in surface rust underneath.
By the look of things, that is a radiator that B&Q sell for about £49.
The fact you paid £5000 for a bathroom is not relevant.
However, assuming you paid the installer to supply the radiator, it is down to them to resolve the situation and not for them to make you deal with the manufacturer.British Ex-pat in British Columbia!0 -
or bashed in transit, or bashed in the factory or manufacturing fault or the bathroom fairy knocked it over whilst it was waiting to be installed. Apart from that totally agree with the rest of your post. If it is the B&Q beastie what do people expect for 40 quid?Probably hit with a spanner.
CheersThe difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has it's limits. - Einstein0
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