Economy 7 meter removed - and we save - can we backdate?

YoYoY

Toad wrote: »

I think part of the point here is that the general public are not experts in electricity supply and as such we have to trust that we're being given all the information. I was cornered into choosing a tariff. nPower did not even suggest that a meter could be changed, even for a charge, they just said I had to be on E7 and my DD set at the previous occupants rate, despite my objections that our family was very different. For example we don't use a dryer or a dishwasher. We don't occupy multiple rooms with multiple TV sets etc.

When I read somewhere about E7 I realised that my night time consumption was very low (we turn everything off at night) and as such nPower were making a tidy profit off the increased daytime rate - and it seems they were doing so at my previous address too!

I have written to nPower but so far have no response. I may have to take it on the chin but this all seems a bit cloak and dagger to me and one has to wonder how much these utility companies are making due to people having E7 when they would clearly benefit from a single rate. Even paying for the meter replacement would still see us save over a year.

nPower have given you a response in this very thread!

Toad

YoYoY wrote: »

nPower have given you a response in this very thread!

They have responded to my forum post, not to my customer service request.

Despite that, offering the customer the option to change tariffs - from one E7 to another E7 without telling them that the meter can be changed, is not providing all the information.

I submit that nPower deliberately withheld information with the aim of having me pay a higher rate than I should. I'll not budge from that stance. But, as I said, I could have done my research and found this for myself. But equally, there is a degree of responsibility on the supplier to provide information and not to mislead.

Six of one, half a dozen of the other maybe?

The same could be said of PPI - people sign the contract - should we say that they should have done more research and therefore nobody should be getting refunds? Afterall, they signed the printed contract right there in black and white as did I (well OK, I always told them where to go with PPI). If you're told PPI is a 'requirement' or E7 is a 'requirement' - where's the difference?

Cardew

Toad wrote: »

If you're told PPI is a 'requirement' or E7 is a 'requirement' - where's the difference?

The difference is you are not told E7 is a 'requirement'

As has been explained above, many people want to stay on E7 - even without storage heating - because it is cheaper for their pattern of consumption.

Imagine the outcry if they told customers to ditch E7 and then it was discovered that they could be better off with that tariff.

Toad

Cardew wrote: »

The difference is you are not told E7 is a 'requirement'

As has been explained above, many people want to stay on E7 - even without storage heating - because it is cheaper for their pattern of consumption.

Imagine the outcry if they told customers to ditch E7 and then it was discovered that they could be better off with that tariff.

I was told as an E7 meter is fitted, I must be on an E7 tariff, therefore it was required.

As I said, I'll know better for next time.

Terrylw1

Cardew wrote: »

The difference is you are not told E7 is a 'requirement'

As has been explained above, many people want to stay on E7 - even without storage heating - because it is cheaper for their pattern of consumption.

Imagine the outcry if they told customers to ditch E7 and then it was discovered that they could be better off with that tariff.

They already do this, but on an individual basis. I know of decisions to make it practice to be checking and suggesting such a change but it got swallowed up in all the other issues that operational people were dealing with.

The real danger of this is the lack of research into price and the impact on the customer if they switched, which you highlighted earlier. The current supplier would only be interested in their customer so it would require some protection being added to the SLC's.

In the OP's case, their DD was based on the previous customer. So, that means they could have equally determined if the previous customer shouldn't be on E7. Given there could be a shift, it would be safer to monitor and change later really. However, its always been common from a training perspective to tell operators that E7 with no storage heating and E7 is a likely candidate for a meter change.

I would imagine that this will change in the future and smart will probably be a catalyst for it.

However, the same data used to interrogate the E7 vs standard is used operationally to diagnose meter faults and abnormal consumption patterns so its all possible.

This is why I raised this on replying to the Npower rep, who should know that such checks could be made when the OP made contact to avoid complaints like this.

In the case of moving to a new home, the supplier after all has some data.

Terrylw1

Toad wrote: »

I was told as an E7 meter is fitted, I must be on an E7 tariff, therefore it was required.

As I said, I'll know better for next time.

From a systems point of view, its always been the case that in creating a new account you inherit the previous customer tariff (although not necessarily the product due to a contracted rate, most likely a standard rate) as the meter dictates the tariff.

The issue probably lies on the previous account if the storage heaters are gone.

Its a 2 way thing but you may not known until you take a series of readings. There have been many such complaints where a change at the premise meant the meter should be changed but the supplier didn't look at the change in the data. So, its a legitimate complaint as you would expect advice when signing up, this is why I replied back to the Npower rep because, knowing what data is out there, I don't accept that a supplier is without blame.

Toad

Terrylw1 wrote: »

So, its a legitimate complaint as you would expect advice when signing up, this is why I replied back to the Npower rep because, knowing what data is out there, I don't accept that a supplier is without blame.

Thank you, I was beginning to think I was going mad or was being unreasonable

Tony

espresso

Toad wrote: »

The same could be said of PPI - people sign the contract - should we say that they should have done more research and therefore nobody should be getting refunds? Afterall, they signed the printed contract right there in black and white as did I (well OK, I always told them where to go with PPI). If you're told PPI is a 'requirement' or E7 is a 'requirement' - where's the difference?

Change the record!

E7 is not a requirement and you have not been miss sold anything as you keep claiming.

They changed your meter when you asked them to didn't they - when you became more knowledgeable about the various tariffs available and discovered that the daytime rate on E7 costs more.

You still seem to believe saying you should be compensated for your ignorance and the fact that you did no research until recently.

Toad wrote: »

Hi All,
We insisted on having our economy 7 meter removed on the grounds that because only a tiny percentage of our usage was at night that we would make a saving.

It wasn't until recently that we discovered that on E7 - the daytime rate is higher than usual!! So you're usually not making a savinf unless you're using a fair amount of electricity at night - and we're not.

Cardew

Terrylw1 wrote: »

So, its a legitimate complaint as you would expect advice when signing up, this is why I replied back to the Npower rep because, knowing what data is out there, I don't accept that a supplier is without blame.

Well it isn't often I disagree with the very knowledgeable Terry! however as this is 'opinion' and not factual information!!!

There are some 20 million electrical customers. To get down to advising every new customer of the ramifications of every tariff would just not be feasible.

What is sensible for one customer, where the whole household gets up early and uses lots of off-peak electricity in the morning, won't apply to another household.

As stated above, E7 may be unsuitable for a household on a BG tariff, but that may not apply to say Scottish power where the 'break-even' percentage is much lower.

Even British Gas have changed their E7 tariff structure so the break-even point has varied over the last few years between 20% and the current 40% on some of their tariffs.

Once you start offering advice to the 20 million on a suitable tariff you have 'hold of a tiger by the tail'. Every change to a tariff structure that could possibly affect a customer would have to have the implications discussed with the customer.

Can you imagine the complaints to the Energy Ombudsman - 'I was told by BG in 2001 that E7 was the best tariff for me, but I had gas CH installed in 2002 and I wasn't told that I should have moved from E7, so for 10 years I have paid too much - compensation please!!'

caveat emptor

Smedders11

You've not been mis-sold anything.

Just because you're ignorant of how something works, in this case E7, doesn't mean it is flawed. When I moved into my house, we had an E7 meter. Yesterday I worked out how much of my total monthly usage I use overnight (17%). This didn't sound like it warranted the higher standing charge and day rate per kWh. Did a few sums and I worked out I could save £2 a month --not much, but it's still £24 a year! I rang up yesterday and now I'm getting it removed in two weeks.

You're not entitled to anything. Next time research a little and your ignorance won't bite you in the !!!.