Economy 7 meter removed - and we save - can we backdate?

Terrylw1

amiehall wrote: »

It depends on your region and supplier. My previous supplier only needed 21% at night to be better off than on their best non-E7 tariff. It's not a big conspiracy. If you have storage for hot water or heating, E7 is a fantastic idea and can save you a fortune.

You can get rid of E7 by changing the meter to a standard one. Sadly a lot of houses would also need to be rewired to make sure all appliances (particularly heating) continue to work after the meter change. It isn't always simple.

All properties would require a rewire first to remove the heating from the Night circuit. An engineer won't change it if he detects any load.

Terrylw1

sophlowe45 wrote: »

I got told they just add up the day and night meter readings to take you off e7. Mine has been taken off.

Not all suppliers are willing to do this.

Its a grey are in compliance so suppliers are operating in different ways. Not all E7's have supporting industry data to allow them to operate on standard regardless of how a supplier wants to bill you hence when you switch, the new supplier might refuse to do it.

Changing the meter is a safe option.

Terrylw1

nPower_company_representative wrote: »

Hi Toad,

When you move into a new property you need to let us know what tariff you need as each customer's circumstances could be completely different to the previous occupier.

You've mentioned that we should use your previous consumption but again this could change - you could have moved into a larger house, have more appliances, etc.

When we open an account, we send you a welcome letter which clearly states the tariff that you are on and then you can contact us to query this if you want to change it.

Hope this helps!

Kind regards,

Adam

That's not strictly true though, is it?

If the previous occupant installed GCH hence removing the storage heaters, the advances per register will change and your incoming 12 month future energy forecasts will change with it.

So, saying its up to a new occupant is not always valid. If you saw the previous occupants pattern shift away from E7, I would be asking why you didn't make contact with them to understand why and change it based on their agreement.

The supplier gets sufficient industry data to tell them if the customer is benefitting from E7 or not and could implement reports to pull these cases out.

Now, if the OP moves to a property in this scenario, they would need to make the change themselves. However, you could have also made them aware at the point of the contract signing that the pattern had shifted away to enable a discussion over the best tariff.

Despite being asked, its always the case in this industry that if you have a 2 rate meter, you are defaulted to a 2 rate tariff on a change of tenancy. So, perhaps the OP should respond by asking whether you were aware if such a shift in pattern and why it was mentioned.

Since the OP states the DD was set up based on previous customers consumption patterns, someone has reviewed someone else's use...not this customers. So, that person should have also spotted this issue.

The OP should look into this element as it would add to a miss sake if sorts, or more of a poor management issue. It could be a legitimate complaint though.

pooch

Terrylw1 wrote: »

nPower_company_representative wrote: »

Hi Toad,

When you move into a new property you need to let us know what tariff you need as each customer's circumstances could be completely different to the previous occupier.

You've mentioned that we should use your previous consumption but again this could change - you could have moved into a larger house, have more appliances, etc.

When we open an account, we send you a welcome letter which clearly states the tariff that you are on and then you can contact us to query this if you want to change it.

Hope this helps!

Kind regards,

Adam

That's not strictly true though, is it?...

I cannot see anything untruthful in what the nPower rep. has posted.

Cardew

Terrylw1 wrote: »

The supplier gets sufficient industry data to tell them if the customer is benefitting from E7 or not and could implement reports to pull these cases out.

The problem with that is you would really need 12 months data, thus covering all seasons, to reach a conclusion on E7 being of benefit or not.

Also the E7 tariff structures vary tremendously between companies. The last time I looked you needed to use approx 40% off-peak use with British Gas to break even, However with Scottish Power it was just under 20%.

So someone with BG using, say, 30% could be advised to change meters(and pay to do so??) and then find that they would have been a lot better off on E7 with Scottish Power.

Also companies change their charging structures for E7. In the last few years BG have changed the 'break even' point from around 20% to 40%.

Terrylw1

pooch wrote: »

I cannot see anything untruthful in what the nPower rep. has posted.

How about stating their usage could mean they could be standard or E7 and they rely on the customer for this? If the previous customer had a 2 rate E7 but had storage heaters removed, their usage per register would alter. So, unless they really used a lot in the off peak time, the supplier can see the tariff is incorrect to the property.

When it comes to E7, its not solely the customer, its the property.

So, I'm saying that its incorrect to hide behind that as a defence.

Terrylw1

Cardew wrote: »

The problem with that is you would really need 12 months data, thus covering all seasons, to reach a conclusion on E7 being of benefit or not.

Also the E7 tariff structures vary tremendously between companies. The last time I looked you needed to use approx 40% off-peak use with British Gas to break even, However with Scottish Power it was just under 20%.

So someone with BG using, say, 30% could be advised to change meters(and pay to do so??) and then find that they would have been a lot better off on E7 with Scottish Power.

Also companies change their charging structures for E7. In the last few years BG have changed the 'break even' point from around 20% to 40%.

I completely agree and its very difficult for a customer to be sure unless they are nowhere near any break even point.

I remember at deregulation, it was considered 70/30. Since then I've heard 80/20 and more recently 76/24. These values were "in-house" and were applied across every region and product with no use of comparison sites. So, you can imagine how badly these teams are advising their customers!

Its even more complicated for the other E type meters with their more complex patterns.

In terms of 12 months data though, they always have it. Part of the switching process means they receive a forecast for the next 12 months and every time a reading is taken or meter change occurs, this is updated and sent again. These values are weather based using weather station data and sets of industry values produced using these factors to allow its application into the forecast.

Cardew

Terrylw1 wrote: »

I completely agree and its very difficult for a customer to be sure unless they are nowhere near any break even point.

I remember at deregulation, it was considered 70/30. Since then I've heard 80/20 and more recently 76/24. These values were "in-house" and were applied across every region and product with no use of comparison sites. So, you can imagine how badly these teams are advising their customers!

Its even more complicated for the other E type meters with their more complex patterns.

In terms of 12 months data though, they always have it. Part of the switching process means they receive a forecast for the next 12 months and every time a reading is taken or meter change occurs, this is updated and sent again. These values are weather based using weather station data and sets of industry values produced using these factors to allow its application into the forecast.

I meant 12 months data for the new occupants, as basing advice on the previous occupant's consumption could be misleading.

I agree that 30% off-peak use used to be the 'standard' break even point, but it has varied(and still does) from 0%(yes zero) to over 40%. The break even point has even varied if you have gas or not. i.e. a lower break even point on the same E7 tariff if you have dual fuel.

Toad

sophlowe45 wrote: »

you can get rid of E7? I was told that what I was on when I moved in, didn't know I could change it, calling today to get rid of it!

I read an article saying e7 is only worth it if 40 per cent of your usage is at night.

Precisely my problem, I was told I was E7 and that's it ! Which is why I claim that I have been miss-sold!

Toad

I think part of the point here is that the general public are not experts in electricity supply and as such we have to trust that we're being given all the information. I was cornered into choosing a tariff. nPower did not even suggest that a meter could be changed, even for a charge, they just said I had to be on E7 and my DD set at the previous occupants rate, despite my objections that our family was very different. For example we don't use a dryer or a dishwasher. We don't occupy multiple rooms with multiple TV sets etc.

When I read somewhere about E7 I realised that my night time consumption was very low (we turn everything off at night) and as such nPower were making a tidy profit off the increased daytime rate - and it seems they were doing so at my previous address too!

I have written to nPower but so far have no response. I may have to take it on the chin but this all seems a bit cloak and dagger to me and one has to wonder how much these utility companies are making due to people having E7 when they would clearly benefit from a single rate. Even paying for the meter replacement would still see us save over a year.