Quantum Tuning - anyone heard of it?

cepheus

One of those flashing me yesterday. I wan't to install those heavy machine guns which point out of the rear, FAB 1 style. Would that alter my insurance premium?

JQ.

cepheus wrote: »

it is however illegal

What's illegal about remapping a car?

mkirkby

cepheus wrote: »

There will be a good reason why the manufacturer hasn't done it already. The engine is set up to meet the right balance of emissions, power and fuel consumption. Quite often motorists are selfish enough not to bother about the first of these, it is however illegal and these amateurs could mess up everything.

.

As JQ. said, what's illegal about it? Original maps are also a compromise for crap fuels that might be available in other countries. The ecu must cope with these. A well remapped car can quite often beat the original map for emissions, power and fuel consumption. (Note the use of the word *well*)

Dave_C_2

So a major car company with £millions to spend on Research and Development has developed the ECU and its software to give the best mileage, performance emissions etc. Testing on rolling roads, wind tunnels, climatic chambers and so forth.

Yet some after-market company with virtually no R&D can do a better job? And on a huge range of makes and models of car.

Really?

Dave, being skeptical.

Lum

All cars are a compromise, between reliability, longevity, cost to manufacture, the need to run on all kinds of fuel and the need to meet certain emissions regulations other than CO2. Additionally many manufacturers offer different performance level options that are actually the exact same engine and components, just different software, and they charge you for the privilege.

Flashing a new map simply changes that compromise to one that may suit you better, for example improved fuel consumption and CO2 emissions at the expense of increased CO or NO2 emissions.. not a problem if this a motorway car, but pretty anti social if it's a town car. Or you may choose to have improved performance at the cost of engine longevity, it may only last 10 years instead of 15 years. Not a problem if you're the kind of person who sells on the car when the warranty runs out.

Or you could just download the software from the 120bhp version of a 1.9 Golf TDi and flash it onto your otherwise identical 90bhp 1.9 Golf TDi.

This sort of thing goes on all the time, and not just with cars, look at the computer enthusiastswith overclocking and so on. For example I bought an ATI HD6950 graphics card which is virtually identical to the HD6970, flashed on the BIOS from the 6970 which unlocked the extra shaders (which are only disabled in software) and increased the clock speed and memory speed. For 10 minutes work I saved 50 quid. That card is still working fine now and it will be obsolete long before it dies.

mkirkby

Dave_C wrote: »

Yet some after-market company with virtually no R&D can do a better job? And on a huge range of makes and models of car.

.

No, but they can do a different job to suit individual needs. Although you will probably find that most established companies do indeed do quite a bit of R&D.

I personally remapped my old Fiat Coupe Turbo to give more power at the top end whilst lowering fuelling at the bottom end to give me better mpg at cruising speeds. Anyone who drove it wouldn't have appreciated the lack of low down power & it would have got slated if Fiat had released it like that but it suited me and I got used to it.

Besides it was fun playing around with it.

cepheus

JQ. wrote: »

What's illegal about remapping a car?

It alters the standard to which the car was type approved to, both for this country and the EU.

The engine maps are implemented carefully to meet customer requirements whilst meeting emission standards so your car doesn't foul up the local air quality.

If any back street amateur can remap this to get more power or better fuel-consumption without a price to the environment you really have to ask why this wasn't done in the first place.

Now I'm not suggesting they would actually see or be able to measure this with the crude equipment at an MOT, but it is technically illegal. It comes under emission control equipment, modified in bold below

COMMISSION DIRECTIVE 2010/48/EU of 5 July 2010 adapting to technical progress Directive 2009/40/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council on roadworthiness tests for motor vehicles and their trailers

In the interests of road-safety, environmental protection and fair competition it is important to ensure that vehicles in operation are properly maintained and tested, in order to maintain their performance as guar­anteed by type-approval, without excessive degradation, throughout their life-time

Article 2 1. Member States shall bring into force the laws, regulations and administrative provisions necessary to comply with this Directive by 31 December 2011 at the latest,

4. MINIMUM INSPECTION REQUIREMENTS The inspection shall cover at least the items and use the minimum standards and methods listed below. Reasons for failure are examples of defects that may be detected.....

8.2.1. Petrol engine emissions 8.2.1.1. Exhaust emissions control equipment Visual inspection (a) Emission control equipment fitted by the manufacturer absent, modified or obviously defective.

8.2.2. Diesel engine emissions 8.2.2.1. Exhaust emission control equipment Visual inspection (a) Emission control equipment fitted by the manufacturer absent or obviously defective

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2010:173:0047:0072:EN:PDF

Lum

That paragraph clearly states "Exhaust emissions control equipment" which means things like catalytic converters, particulate filters, EGR etc.

Notmyrealname

But no emissions control equipment is being modified. Chipped cars still have to pass UK emissions tests and won't be modified to a point they don't.

Here's the important part as to why ECUs aren't mapped to give the best power/MPG output.

From your post:

The engine maps are implemented carefully to meet customer requirements

They are done to cater for as many people as possible. For example, Average Joe wants smooth power delivery, not a huge gob of it when you get to a certain amount of revs so the map detunes the car when it comes on cam.

As for R&D comments, the best companies do your individual car on a rolling road and creates a map specific to that car. No R&D needs to be done because the effects are measured in REAL TIME and for that specific engine. Which brings me nicely back to the point that manufacturer maps are compromises as no two engines are exactly the same so again another compromise is made to ensure an equal as possible performance for the entire production range of an engine.

Lum

Also worth noting that some manufacturers, most notably BMW are trying to get the EU to pass rules that ban remapping. Something about a chipped 335i being faster and more efficient than a much more expensive M3, if I remember correctly.

This being a money saving forum. People should be in favour of these remaps. If you get it done and then don't drive like a loon then you will save fuel. If you get it done and then drive like a loon, you have just upgraded your car to a higher performance model for a fraction of the difference in price for the two models.