Quantum Tuning - anyone heard of it?

cepheus

Notmyrealname wrote: »

But no emissions control equipment is being modified. Chipped cars still have to pass UK emissions tests and won't be modified to a point they don't.

Here's the important part as to why ECUs aren't mapped to give the best power/MPG output.

From your post:


They are done to cater for as many people as possible. For example, Average Joe wants smooth power delivery, not a huge gob of it when you get to a certain amount of revs so the map detunes the car when it comes on cam.

As for R&D comments, the best companies do your individual car on a rolling road and creates a map specific to that car. No R&D needs to be done because the effects are measured in REAL TIME and for that specific engine. Which brings me nicely back to the point that manufacturer maps are compromises as no two engines are exactly the same so again another compromise is made to ensure an equal as possible performance for the entire production range of an engine.

Unless it is type approved for the EU it will be illegal believe me whatever the outfit tells you, whether you will get caught is something else entirely.

You need some very expensive test equipment and a complex and bureaucratic homologation process to get it approved, which is mainly the preserve of the big manufacturers. Even medium sized automobile manufacturers couldn't afford to do this which is why many of the small outfits either went under, or bought in complete engines and control equipment. Any alteration influences emissions which means the engine and everything needs to be re-tested.

cepheus

Lum wrote: »

Also worth noting that some manufacturers, most notably BMW are trying to get the EU to pass rules that ban remapping. Something about a chipped 335i being faster and more efficient than a much more expensive M3, if I remember correctly.

This being a money saving forum. People should be in favour of these remaps. If you get it done and then don't drive like a loon then you will save fuel. If you get it done and then drive like a loon, you have just upgraded your car to a higher performance model for a fraction of the difference in price for the two models.

As I say they are already banned under the EU rules stated unless they go through the whole type approval procedure, BMW don't have much choice, although they might invalidate the guarantee if they found out.

I understand some manufacturers are installing anti-tamperproof ECUs for new vehicles.

JQ.

cepheus, no doubt you can provide evidence of all the criminal prosecutions for the re-mapping of ECU's in the UK - when you consider it's an entire industry there must be thousands. Please also provide a link to the UK legislation which prohibits re-mapping, not just an EU Directive about emissions.

Alternatively, you could accept that the the EU Directive has been implemented in the UK by changes to the MOT regs this year that requires Catalytic Converters to remain in place.

Re-mapping is not illegal in the UK, nothing you've stated supports your opinion that it is.

cepheus

I have provided the regulation Directive 2010/48/EU , have you read it? Do you understand what type approval means? I do I used to be involved in it.

What have you supplied, nothing!

If you still don't believe me

1) ask for the re-mapping company for the new type approval certificate and see the blank looks.

2) phone up the dealer or manufacturer and ask them about re-mapping or better still

3) contact the type approval section Department for Transport (not Vosa) I used to work for them, that's how I know. It's not an opinion.

Prosecution and illegal are two different things, I have little doubt you will get away with it because VOSA doesn't have the resources to investigate each remapping. I suspect it will become so difficult to do it will just die out.

The Department are more worried about the re-mapping of Motorcycle/Mopeds classes, not least because the speeds are limited on some of these. As you could imagine this is very common at the moment.

JQ.

Ok, unfair to ask you to provide evidence of the thousands of prosecutions - just provide evidence of a single prosecution for re-mapping please.

You keep quoting the EU Directive - I'm asking you to provide the UK legislation that outlaw's re-mapping. EU Directives require member states to change the law within their own country so that the directive can be implemented. That has happened in the UK with the changes to the MOT that came into place this year which places restrictions on the removal of catalytic converters ("Emission control equipment") and contains emissions testing.

You're right I've supplied nothing, it's not possible to prove a negative. I'm saying there is no law in the UK that outlaw's re-mapping, you say there is - lets see it. After all the EU Directive requires we change our laws to meet it's requirements.

Notmyrealname

cepheus wrote: »

I have provided the regulation Directive 2010/48/EU , have you read it? Do you understand what type approval means? I do I used to be involved in it.

What have you supplied, nothing!

If you still don't believe me

1) ask for the re-mapping company for the new type approval certificate and see the blank looks.

As the requirement for Type Approval hasn't been integrated into UK law, it is irrelevant.

3) contact the type approval section Department for Transport (not Vosa) I used to work for them, that's how I know. It's not an opinion.

The fact you worked for the DoT means absolutely nothing. The fact you worked for the type approval department of it means absolutely nothing. And considering you think it does, I find it quite funny you are unable to provide a link to UK LAW which proves it is illegal - Clue: Until an EU directive is ratified and written into UK law it is unenforceable in the UK.

cepheus

I have never heard of a British or English emission law or standard for thirty years. These have long been superceeded by Europeans regs.

http://ec.europa.eu/environment/air/transport/road.htm

All vehicles which are used on the roads require a type approval certificate, or require special exemption for specialist cases. Certainly VOSA do use EU directives to enforce conformance.

http://www.vosa.gov.uk/vosa/publications/consultationsandresearch/2007-2011closedconsultations/reviewofmothgvandpsvinspectionmanuals-directive201048eu.htm

In addition, it would potentially invalidate the manufacturers guarantee and insurance companies require you to inform them of any modifications which will almost certainly increase your insurance. Whilst it isn't feasible to check your ECU at every MOT they certainly could do this in the case of an accident which could invalidate your claim unless declared.

mkirkby

cepheus wrote: »

I have provided the regulation Directive 2010/48/EU , have you read it?

Yes

cepheus wrote: »

4. MINIMUM INSPECTION REQUIREMENTS The inspection shall cover at least the items and use the minimum standards and methods listed below. Reasons for failure are examples of defects that may be detected.....

8.2.1. Petrol engine emissions 8.2.1.1. Exhaust emissions control equipment Visual inspection (a) Emission control equipment fitted by the manufacturer absent, modified or obviously defective.

Directive states:-

Minimum Inspection Requirements = Exhaust emissions control equipment *Visual inspection* (i.e. cats etc.)

Even if the fuel map can be regarded as Exhaust Emissions control equipment, how are they going to visually inspect the bits and bytes which determine it?

And as mentioned, if it's so stringent and illegal to remap a car, how many people have been prosecuted so far?

JQ.

cepheus wrote: »

I have never heard of a British or English emission law or standard for thirty years.

Really, the emissions of my car and my wife's car are tested every 12 months and should they fail to meet the levels required we will not be provided with an MOT Certificate. Driving on UK roads without a valid MOT certificate is illegal under Section 47 of the RTA 1988. The penalty is a fine of up to £2,500 (if the vehicle has 8 or more seats), £1,000 (otherwise). No disqualification, endorsement or points can be awarded. I personally consider that to represent a UK emission law.

cepheus wrote: »

In addition, it would potentially invalidate the manufacturers guarantee and insurance companies require you to inform them of any modifications which will almost certainly increase your insurance. Whilst it isn't feasible to check your ECU at every MOT they certainly could do this in the case of an accident which could invalidate your claim unless declared.

I don't understand how that comment sits with your view that re-mapping is illegal. Are you saying the insurance companies are permitting drivers to carry out illegal modifications to their cars and still insuring them? So you're saying UK insurance companies are complicit in criminal acts, how many have been prosecuted?

cepheus

The roadworthness test isn't an emission standard although it includes some crude emission tests and checks as a small part of the overall procedure. They completely exclude emissions of NOx and Particulate (PM10) in the case of Diesels which would be the main increases from tampering, and are usually responsible for breaching air quality standards nowadays. The EU type approval regulations have been in force for twenty odd years.