Do not buy a second hand phone-ever

migstrike

this is a comment from the vodafone uk tech team regarding someone not intending to pay their contract...

Hi buzzeditor,

Welcome to the Vodafone eForum from all of the team.

AnnS is spot on here.

Basically if she continues with the agreement and then stops paying for it without cancelling we will firstly block the SIM whilst the debt is pursued and if no contact is made we will then look at blocking the IMEI of the handset that was supplied.

Unfortunately if the IMEI is blocked, we would not be able to unblock this unless the debt on the old account to be cleared.

James
eForum Team

z.n

I am the original poster and am updating this as the matter has now resolved. Cash Converters eventually gave me a full refund including post and packing-but it took a time and a bit of a fight with their solicitors. Three eventually said that the phone was originally blocked because the phone was reported as stolen, and refused to unblock it because the related contract had not been fully paid up. This all took place 15 months after I had purchased the phone and took over three months to resolve at great inconvenience and confusion. The argument that the right to resell a contract phone transfers when it is given as a 'free' extra with an airtime contract is clearly wrong- until the contract is finished the phone is subject to various restrictions including a bar on resale unless with the consent of the network (in which case the new owner would presumably take over the airtime contract.) Sometimes the network will unblock a phone -in my case they refused, probably as i had recourse against a retail outlet. There are a lot of dodgy phones out there-only buy from a reputable source with a permanent physical presence and expect a lot of hassle if it goes wrong. When the phone is blocked it is a clear indication that there was no right to sell the phone at the point of sale and so a full refund is due without deduction for use-just like for stolen goods. This is part of the SGA and makes sense if you consider the phone a pretty box with the useful phone part hidden inside. If a third party has come along and is allowed to remove the essential 'inner phone bit' it was never owned by you in the first place.

Herongull

This post is very interesting and would certainly put me off buying for a secondhand phone unless I knew the seller personally.

It looks to me as if contract phones are sort of analogous to finance agreements with cars. If you buy a car from someone and they bought it with a finance deal, and they then default on payments, the bank or finance company can re-possess the car, and there is nothing the new owner can do about it (other than pursue the seller).

However there is one key difference:

Before you buy a secondhand car, you can (and should) do a check to see if there are any finance agreements secured on the car.

But when you buy a secondhand phone, there doesn't seem to be anyway of checking whether or not it is a contract phone?

I suspect most near-new phones on sale on ebay (or in other places) are contract phones. People get a new phone on contract and sell it because they are happy to continue using their old phone.

But if even they sell the phone in good faith, if they lose their job or run into financial difficulties further down the track, it is the person who bought the phone who loses out as the seller may be untraceable or have no money now.

On that basis, buying phones on ebay is very high risk.

Buying phones from Cash Converters is not as risky as ebay because you have legal rights against CC (who do have money and aren't untraceable), but it sounds as if you may have to fight (time consuming/hassle).

Tony5101

This does smack of the network having it's cake and eating it...
Depending on the network, if the phone breaks/fails they don't want to know if it's out of warranty but the contract is still running..but they now seem to believe that they have a right to block the phone if the contract is not fully paid up.
Too many times they have denied any responsibility towards the hardware, but it would seem that they are now reserving the right to block the phone if the account is outstanding.
A case of double standards if ever I saw one.

macman

Why would the network leave the phone 'open' if the payments have stopped and the phone continues to be used (and the contract holder is not contactable)?They would haveunlimited liability for any billing racked up-which could be huge if the phone is roaming or being used to make overseas calls.
The service is dependent on the monthly payments being made. Cease those and you are in breach of contract. Once that happens the network has every right to cease service.
The airtime and handset contracts are entirely separate. You don't lease the handset, it's yours from day one, and the warranty is that provided by the manufacturer.

Tony5101

That's not what is being said above though is it?
I have no issue with the network blocking the account whilst it's in default, but from what the OP is saying, the handset was blocked and they wouldn't remove this block as the account was in default.
The network appears to be saying that the phone is subject to resale conditions whilst there is an airtime contract active.

macman

I presume that the difficulty is proving a genuine change of ownership to the network. Otherwise people would take out contracts with the intention of selling the handset on and defaulting.

Guys_Dad

Networks are quick to say "Tough" if a handset packs in after 15 months and say that the handset has nothing to do with the responsibility for the airtime contract which is separate. If the handset fails after 15 months, then it;s your handset - your problem.

No it seems that when you don't keep up the contract, suddenly the handset is theirs to render unworkable.

Consistency? I think not!

katejo

macman wrote: »

I presume that the difficulty is proving a genuine change of ownership to the network. Otherwise people would take out contracts with the intention of selling the handset on and defaulting.

There was an entry on here last week from someone who claimed to have done that. He/she was in debt. Managed to take out a contract on 2 iphone 5's and then offered them on Ebay. The buyers found that the phones were blocked because the original person made no payments.

Emy1501

Can't see how what 3 are doing is legal. If they don't own the phone and a phone contract Isnt a credit agreement so they can't secure payment against the phone then how can they block the phone for non payment of something not tied to payment of the phone.