Does Blue Badge Scheme Apply on Private Land?

bluesteve71

Half_way wrote: »

The OP has got a serious problem and needs help getting his money back



If not said already the OP needs to get hold of all the paperwork including the receipt which should contain an SIA number for the person who imobolised his vehicle, using that you can see if the clampit had some form of authorisation.

Next up you need to find out who owns the car park, who hired the clamping company and get ready to issue proceedings against all partys, these normaly take the form of a notice\letter before action first of all and they should eb brief and to the point.
The fact that there may be a question of should he have parked there/shouldnt he? and the blue badge is irrelavant if he didnt consent to the risk of being clamped.

First of all you should try the clampers appeal process ( highly unlikely to work, but if it comes to it you can show youve tried negotiaion/the complaints procedure)

Next you should be looking at action against the following starting with an Letter/notice before action telling them that they should re-fund you or legal action will comence

The Clamper ( whos SIA number you should have)
The car park owner who contracted the clampers
The Cinema who failed to warn you

The amount should be for the coost of removing the clamp, trhe cost of issuing proceedings, and any other costs such as interest ( at 8%?)
I would also strongly advise the OP if he hasnt already to post on pepipoo 's private parking forum, as they deal with clampits on a regular basis, and have people who will be able to guide you in each step ( helping to draft letters/NBA's filling in forms etc etc)

One more thing, once you get to the letter before action stage try visiting the cinema, see the manager armed with your letter before action, and possibly court forms ready to go and ask for a cash re-fund there and then. be polite be courteous and be firmstating that unless your re-funded then you will take action.

When posting on pepipoo and on here scan all your documents ( recepits sia numbers etc etc ) but remove any personal data and then post them on the forums.

Thanks for the advice, & thanks everyone for taking time to reply to my post. I think that the different opinions here (& also the conflicting info given by CAB on the 3 occasions I called them) highlights that this is a grey area.

We took photos of the parking sign, have the clamping receipt & called the cinema complex twice. On both occasions when I called them, they put the phone down on me as soon as I started to explain my problem.

I also wrote to the clampers, & they replied saying that I should have displayed a blue badge. Well if that's the case, why did the parking sign not stipulate that???

I guess my next course of action is to consider whether it is worth pursuing in the small claims court. I will also try the cinema complex again; if I can find a parking space!

HO87

@ OP

Clamping relies (for the remaining time that it will be legal - so only a few days) on a legal principal known as volenti (in full, volenti non fit injuria - no injury is done to he who consents). In brief, if obvious warning signs make it clear that if you breach the conditions outlined on them that you risk being clamped and you then park in breach of the conditions then you are at risk of being clamped to which you will be deemed to have consented.

There is some relevant case law which clampers blithely bandy around but generally fail to understand. These cases make it clear that the signs must be clear and obvious (Arthur v Anker) and that they must have been seen and their content understood (Vine v LB Waltham Forest).

It is clear from your posts that you both saw the signs and understood that they conveyed a warning that vehicles might be clamped and although the point was made about being improperly parked in a disabled bay this was not clarified to the extent that a blue badge should be displayed.

As the condition was unclear my take on this is that the clamping of your vehicle therefore amounted to a trespass to goods and the clampers obtained the payment without justification. You should find out who operates the land the complex is on and draft a letter before action to go to them, their agent (the clamping company) and the individual clamper himself. The clamping company is likely to fold shortly (once clamping becomes illegal) and you should therefore include the landowner/managing agent. You are far more likely to get your money from them than the clamping company in any event.

You would do well to go to pepipoo.com for detailed guidance on how to pursue this matter.

BASFORDLAD

bluesteve71 wrote: »

Thanks for the advice, & thanks everyone for taking time to reply to my post. I think that the different opinions here (& also the conflicting info given by CAB on the 3 occasions I called them) highlights that this is a grey area.

We took photos of the parking sign, have the clamping receipt & called the cinema complex twice. On both occasions when I called them, they put the phone down on me as soon as I started to explain my problem.

I also wrote to the clampers, & they replied saying that I should have displayed a blue badge. Well if that's the case, why did the parking sign not stipulate that???

I guess my next course of action is to consider whether it is worth pursuing in the small claims court. I will also try the cinema complex again; if I can find a parking space!

it will cost you nothing to issue the letter before action so you may get a result for nothing

Coupon-mad

BASFORDLAD wrote: »

it will cost you nothing to issue the letter before action so you may get a result for nothing

But make sure that Letter Before Action also includes the landowner and Cinema. Certainly NEVER just the clampers!

RENEGADE_2

bluesteve71 wrote: »

They were very rude to my wife, & demanded the £125 (in cash - the debit card machine was allegedly out of action), or the vehicle would remain clamped.

Bluesteve I am very sorry about this experience you have had. Firstly concerning the above, you cannot expect better from those parasitical nomads, I only hope you ensured that the ape that clamped your car had a valid SIA badge. If not, it is something worth looking into as he would have committed a criminal offence.

The Country Courts have a stupid policy: Volenti not fit injuria (from Latin: to the willing, no harm is done). You've paid and that is that. The Blue Badge means NOTHING on private land and frankly those animals who clamp will find any half reason to do so. But you must have smelt a rat when they inisted upon cash only - what reputable business does this?

The reality is - as private parking tickets themselves are not valid, neither is the demand of the clamper. Since you got back to your car before they removed it, you were for a short time home and dry - but you've handed the money and the game may be over.

Provided one person were in the vehicle, you could have staged a stand-off with your antagonists. "I am not paying you, and I'm not moving from here." Legally they cannot move the vehicle if a person is inside it.

Clamping itself is not strictly above board. An item has been seized for non-payment of an alleged debt: "alleged" because it has not been proven in court. They in turn could never prove to a court that your action cost them £125.

Had someone brought you a full tool kit, you could have seen if you were able to dismantle their junk peice by piece. That would have prevented any criminal damage. Failing that, perhaps you could have smashed the rubbish but only in the night where there would be no witness.

HOWEVER...
I am thinking about something else.

Clamping is already criminalised for not paying to park and it is only overlooked where an unauthorised vehicle has been parked. Now we have already established that the Blue Badge is not an issue within Private Parking and they cannot apply any policy regarding that document. Question: WAS THE SPACE ON WHICH YOU PARKED FOR PEOPLE TO USE OR NOT? If it were not, because it happened to be the loading area in a factory, then you were unlawfully parked. However, IF the only thing that stood between you and the clampers was your Blue Badge (according to them), then it is my opinion that the clampers have committed a criminal offence, so I would take this straight to the police.

Appealing to them was a waste of time anyway, we all knew what the outcome would be. You're not dealing with reasonable human beings doing a civilised constructive job, you are dealing with bacteria from an explosion in a chemical factory scavenging for loot. Their game is over from 1st October.

Report it to the police, and possibly seek legal advice. Remember, you parked in a designated parking space and not the entrance to building site.

RENEGADE_2

October 1st - that is one week this Monday. They must be running around like there is no tomorrow...sorry, there isn't for them is there!

bluesteve71

Coupon-mad wrote: »

The problem is that clamping is a trespass against goods and only currently has lawful excuse if the driver has seen/been given ample warning of the consequences of parking there.

The OP has not mentioned seeing any clear signs about the matter and had to go and ask if he could park there, he had to go into the premises and took steps to try to find out. Having asked, they then failed to inform him about the risk. Doesn't matter if they knew or not, they should have found out from a Manager - the staff there could hardly claim they didn't know that clampers operated. Everyone knows if their car park has parasites clamping in it.

Thanks for taking the time to respond Coupon-Mad. Just one point though. We did see the parking sign & took a photo of it. It did not mention that a blue badge had to be displayed to allow parking in the disabled bay. It simply stated that vehicles would be immobilised if "improperly parked" in the bay. There is no definition of "improperly parked" on the sign.

Coupon-mad

That means nothing then. What a useless sign, can you show your pic here please? If you can't post links yet, post it as a partial link with no 'http://'.

Anyway you will have to sue all the parties involved if you want to see your money again - and that means letters before action being sent to them all first of all. Post on pepipoo for help (link already given to you by HO87).

bluesteve71

Hi folks. By way of an update, I issued a claim in the Small Claims Court, & a defence has been filed by the clamping company.

They state the following in their defence: "The claimant was parked in a designated disabled parking bay at the entertainment complex without displaying a blue badge. Upon entering the complex the claimant was abiding by our terms & conditions of parking. There are over 50 signs situated throughout the complex stating our terms & conditions of parking.
Whilst we appreciate the claimant was experiencing temporary mobility issues, the disabled bays are to be used strictly for blue badge holders only...the claimaint had parked in a disabled bay without a Blue Badge therefore resulting in his vehicle being immobilized as stated on our signs situated throughout the complex".

My point is that the signs do not stipulate that a blue badge must be displayed. It states that vehicles will be immobilised "if improperly parked in a designated disabled parking bay." There is no mention of a blue badge, & I thought that the blue badge scheme did not apply on private land anyway. Also, when my wife called to to discuss this with the clamping company, they stated over the telephone that the signs clearly state that a blue badge must be displayed. This is incorrect, as can be seen from the image earlier in this thread. When my wife challenged this, they hung up on her.

Additionally, my wife & I visited the site again on Sunday. Guess what? The original signs have been replaced! The new sign now clearly states the conditions of parking. Vehicles will be issued with a Parking Charge Notice Notice (as opposed to previously being immobilised) "if parked in a designated parking space between 2 white lines, if parked in a disabled bay without displaying a valid blue badge".

When we visited the complex originally the old signs stated "if improperly patked in a designated disabled parking bay". If they had stated that a blue badge had to be displayed when the incident took place, we would not have parked there. The new signs are no longer ambiguous.

Do you think that we should mention this in our response to the clamping company's defence to our claim?

ManxRed

I would be looking to include the 'before' and 'after' pics in your evidence, it does seem to weaken their assertion that the signs were perfectly adequate at the time you parked there.