Does Blue Badge Scheme Apply on Private Land?

pogofish

bluesteve71 wrote: »

Thanks for the responses so far. Having read BS8300 myself just now, are we saying that this is irrelevant to my circumstances..?

Quite irrelevant.

BS8300 is 2009 and more or less a statutory design guide - any part of it dealing with disabilities would now be superseded by the Equality Act of 2010.

Coupon-mad

Poppie68 wrote: »

I was discussing this with a welfare disability advisor just last week, he told me private car park owners are required by BS8300 to monitor all disabled bays and enforce a penalty when required. Maybe it is worth a look to see if this is any help. I haven't looked at it myself so dont know if it will be useful to you.
By the way this wasn't a random conversation, we were discussing parking for me at work...

Well quite possibly, but that doesn't suddenly mean the Council {Public Highways Only} BB Scheme applies! Under the Equality Act they should indeed be making regular checks that 'reasonable adjustments' such as disabled bays are working as intended and are sufficient for the needs of their customers.

But that does not mean they can impose a requirement for a Blue Badge. The scheme does not apply on private land.

However, as regards the OP.

- He should NOT have used a disabled bay for a broken leg because it's not a chronic long-term condition (usually considered to be a life-affecting condition lasting at least 12 months). So he was not protected by the Equality Act.

- But as the cinema staff were specifically told that he had parked there and were specifically asked if it was OK, then they have failed to warn him properly by their 'don't know' answer.

This means that the OP can sue in the Small Claims Court, naming the clampers, and definitely naming the cinema complex and if appropriate, the land owner (check with Land Registry for that contact address). As further evidence, the OP should keep the receipt and also get some photos of the signs in the car park right now, this week, before they are taken down in the next fortnight (clamping is being banned).

Post on pepipoo here:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=60

HTH

mikey72

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Well quite possibly, but that doesn't suddenly mean the Council {Public Highways Only} BB Scheme applies! Under the Equality Act they should indeed be making regular checks that 'reasonable adjustments' such as disabled bays are working as intended and are sufficient for the needs of their customers.

But that does not mean they can impose a requirement for a Blue Badge. The scheme does not apply on private land.

However, as regards the OP.

- He should NOT have used a disabled bay for a broken leg because it's not a chronic long-term condition (usually considered to be a life-affecting condition lasting at least 12 months). So he was not protected by the Equality Act.

- But as the cinema staff were specifically told that he had parked there and were specifically asked if it was OK, then they have failed to warn him properly by their 'don't know' answer.

This means that the OP can sue in the Small Claims Court, naming the clampers, and definitely naming the cinema complex and if appropriate, the land owner (check with Land Registry for that contact address). As further evidence, the OP should keep the receipt and also get some photos of the signs in the car park right now, this week, before they are taken down in the next fortnight (clamping is being banned).

Post on pepipoo here:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=60

HTH

They did indeed say they didn't know, because they didn't know.
In no way is that ambiguous. In no way does it imply the op would be alright to park there.
They didn't know.
The op then decided to park anyway.
Without asking antyone that did know.
It shows very clearly you should never ask anyone that sells popcorn about parking.

Coupon-mad

mikey72 wrote: »

They did indeed say they didn't know, because they didn't know.
In no way is that ambiguous. In no way does it imply the op would be alright to park there.
They didn't know.
The op then decided to park anyway.
Without asking antyone that did know.
It shows very clearly you should never ask anyone that sells popcorn about parking.

The problem is that clamping is a trespass against goods and only currently has lawful excuse if the driver has seen/been given ample warning of the consequences of parking there.

The OP has not mentioned seeing any clear signs about the matter and had to go and ask if he could park there, he had to go into the premises and took steps to try to find out. Having asked, they then failed to inform him about the risk. Doesn't matter if they knew or not, they should have found out from a Manager - the staff there could hardly claim they didn't know that clampers operated. Everyone knows if their car park has parasites clamping in it.

mikey72

muckybutt wrote: »

No we're not ! :mad: , to get back on topic - the blue badge scheme does not apply on private land, never has done !

http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/@disabled/documents/digitalasset/dg_186198.pdf

Page 7

"Off-street car park operators should provide parking spaces for disabled people. However, it is up to the car park owner to decide whether badge holders can park free of charge. "

Page 17

Certainly suggests blue badges have relevance to private parking.
They can be used as a criteria to decide who can park, and what the charges are set at.

Half_way

The OP has got a serious problem and needs help getting his money back

bluesteve71 wrote: »

I am currently on crutches following a broken leg. My wife took me out to the cinema, & parked in a disabled bay, which is on private land. We checked the parking sign, & there was no stipulaton that a blue badge must be displayed. The only stipulation was that vehicles could be immobilised if "improperly parked in a designated disabled parking bay".

We asked members of staff at the cinema complex if it was ok to park there, & no one seemed to know. When we returned to the vehicle, it had been clamped. We called the clampers & were told that we should have displayed a blue badge, & that it is why we were clamped. They were very rude to my wife, & demanded the £125 (in cash - the debit card machine was allegedly out of action), or the vehicle would remain clamped.

We ended up paying the fine, if only to get home that night. We appealed, but received a standard letter from the clampers, saying that a blue badge must be displayed.

I called CAB, & they admitted that it was a grey area, & it was up to me whether I pursue it.

Any thoughts? If the painting of a yellow disabled sign on the ground automatically means that a blue badge must be displayed to park there, then fair enough. We were in the wrong. However, I cannot find anything to suggest that this is the case. I hope someone can help, & tell me if I am wasting time & money challenging this. Thanks in advance.

If not said already the OP needs to get hold of all the paperwork including the receipt which should contain an SIA number for the person who imobolised his vehicle, using that you can see if the clampit had some form of authorisation.

Next up you need to find out who owns the car park, who hired the clamping company and get ready to issue proceedings against all partys, these normaly take the form of a notice\letter before action first of all and they should eb brief and to the point.
The fact that there may be a question of should he have parked there/shouldnt he? and the blue badge is irrelavant if he didnt consent to the risk of being clamped.

First of all you should try the clampers appeal process ( highly unlikely to work, but if it comes to it you can show youve tried negotiaion/the complaints procedure)

Next you should be looking at action against the following starting with an Letter/notice before action telling them that they should re-fund you or legal action will comence

The Clamper ( whos SIA number you should have)
The car park owner who contracted the clampers
The Cinema who failed to warn you

The amount should be for the coost of removing the clamp, trhe cost of issuing proceedings, and any other costs such as interest ( at 8%?)
I would also strongly advise the OP if he hasnt already to post on pepipoo 's private parking forum, as they deal with clampits on a regular basis, and have people who will be able to guide you in each step ( helping to draft letters/NBA's filling in forms etc etc)

One more thing, once you get to the letter before action stage try visiting the cinema, see the manager armed with your letter before action, and possibly court forms ready to go and ask for a cash re-fund there and then. be polite be courteous and be firmstating that unless your re-funded then you will take action.

When posting on pepipoo and on here scan all your documents ( recepits sia numbers etc etc ) but remove any personal data and then post them on the forums.

taffy056

mikey72 wrote: »

"Off-street car park operators should provide parking spaces for disabled people. However, it is up to the car park owner to decide whether badge holders can park free of charge. "

Page 17

Certainly suggests blue badges have relevance to private parking.
They can be used as a criteria to decide who can park, and what the charges are set at.

I know you have this uncanny ability to be very selective in your reading, perhaps if you read 15+16 you will see where you can park, then following on from that is 17 where it says bluebadge holders should not assume they can park for free in private car parks, it doesn't say the badge has any legal standing there at all.

mikey72

taffy056 wrote: »

I know you have this uncanny ability to be very selective in your reading, perhaps if you read 15+16 you will see where you can park, then following on from that is 17 where it says bluebadge holders should not assume they can park for free in private car parks, it doesn't say the badge has any legal standing there at all.

True
page 16 says.

"You are not entitled to park on yellow lines in off-street car parks."

So I agree, no legal standing.
But certainly again states what you can't do, not what you can.

Owain_Moneysaver

Poppie68 wrote: »

I was discussing this with a welfare disability advisor just last week, he told me private car park owners are required by BS8300 to monitor all disabled bays and enforce a penalty when required.

But private car park owners cannot 'enforce' a penalty.

bluesteve71

Coupon-mad wrote: »

The problem is that clamping is a trespass against goods and only currently has lawful excuse if the driver has seen/been given ample warning of the consequences of parking there.

The OP has not mentioned seeing any clear signs about the matter and had to go and ask if he could park there, he had to go into the premises and took steps to try to find out. Having asked, they then failed to inform him about the risk. Doesn't matter if they knew or not, they should have found out from a Manager - the staff there could hardly claim they didn't know that clampers operated. Everyone knows if their car park has parasites clamping in it.

Hi - thanks for the post. I did mention in my OP that I did check the sign (& took photos), & there was no mention that a blue badge had to be displayed. If it did, there is no way that we would have parked in that bay. The car park was full, except for a number of disabled bays which were empty.