Limescale!

freezspirit

Sorry got to ask would citric acid help with the limescale in my toilet cistern.

tlh858

Kamran wrote: »

what sorts of appliances are being "damaged" or made less efficient with limescale and is it worth my while investing this sum of money into preventing limescale deposition?

Potentially anything that uses water.
In reality, the worst affected items are those which heat the water, so kettle, coffee maker, washing machine, combination boiler.
Dishwashers are not affected as they already have an ion exchange water softener in them, hence the need to put salt in there fairly often.

The damage is mostly to the heating element in washing machines, however the element can be replaced fairly cheaply on most machines.

Combination boilers will collect scale in the heat exchanger, the symptoms are hot water taking longer to appear at the hot taps, and when really scaled they will cycle between hot/cold every few seconds. Some can be removed and descaled fairly easily, others cannot.


For water softening there are 2 possible options.
Ion exchange water softeners, which as already mentioned cost £500 upwards, and use salt to regenerate. They do use water when regenerating, so will increase your water bill if you have a meter. You also have to buy fairly substantial quantities of salt.

The other option is a phosphate dosing device such as the Cistermiser Combimate, this works by adding a small quantity of chemical to the water. You therefore have to buy the chemicals for it.
This is the same principle as those dishwasher tablets that have 'softener' built in, and also the grossly overpriced Calgon products.
They are cheaper than ion exchange softeners and don't waste any water, however there is the issue of the chemical being added to the water. Water out of it is safe to drink, however some people may not like the idea of drinking water with added phosphates.

Any product which works by magnets, coils of wire around pipes or similar is totally useless. Yes, some people claim they work, but there is no proper credible evidence that they work, or even any scientific reason why or how they are supposed to do anything.

sillygoose

freezspirit wrote: »

Sorry got to ask would citric acid help with the limescale in my toilet cistern.

Possibly but would take quite a lot for that much water and it works better warmed up, even preheated it would cool pretty quick due to the ceramic bowl absorbing the heat.

You could try a couple of big bottles of cheap coke (lidl 39p) overnight - it contains quite a lot of acid - worked on mine.

Also Aldi are(were?) selling toilet cleaning tablets, leave overnight. Claim to sort it all out but have not tried using it yet.

Ah! just reread - Cistern not bowl... same applies though. Try coke and a scrub around with a dish brush.

Seventiesbaby

We also bought a water softener from fountain softeners online.

Finally I am not struggling to see through my shower screen and the taps are much cleaner too. One of the main advantages I have found is the difference to my hair and how much better my eczema has been since it has been installed.

We employed a plumber to install it for us which took him about half a day to do and I agree with others this way works out far better value than these companies selling them and installing them.

I had no problems with fountain and love the softener, best idea I have had for ages.

southcoastrgi

tlh858 wrote: »

Any product which works by magnets, coils of wire around pipes or similar is totally useless. Yes, some people claim they work, but there is no proper credible evidence that they work, or even any scientific reason why or how they are supposed to do anything.

they work by changing the polarity of the water moliculs so they repel each other & don't form clumps (which is what scale is), they do work but normally only at point of use as if the water is left ie in a roof tank they will revert back.

OP before you get a softner you need to find out what your heat exchanger in the boiler is made of, ie with an ideal boiler for example you can't put softened water in it as it rots the heat exchanger & before someone says totally rubbish it states this in the MI

Ben84

southcoastrgi wrote: »

they work by changing the polarity of the water moliculs so they repel each other & don't form clumps (which is what scale is), they do work but normally only at point of use as if the water is left ie in a roof tank they will revert back.

Sorry, but I'm a chemist and I can tell you that this isn't even loosely based on reality.

southcoastrgi

Ben84 wrote: »

Sorry, but I'm a chemist and I can tell you that this isn't even loosely based on reality.

so as a chemist i'd be interested for your info on how they work then & why all of them use magnets or a magnetic field ?

bajangal

Ben84 wrote: »

Sorry, but I'm a chemist and I can tell you that this isn't even loosely based on reality.

Are you not a pharmacist who work in a chemist.

maninthestreet

southcoastrgi wrote: »

so as a chemist i'd be interested for your info on how they work then & why all of them use magnets or a magnetic field ?

Is there any independent testing of these 'magnetic' water softeners that show they actually work?

jellie

As per post #3, I have one of the devices that you wrap round the pipe.

I've no idea how it works. All I know is that I no longer have any limescale round the things I can see, ie taps, showerhead and kettle.

It doesn't actually soften the water though.