Tv licence threat

[Deleted User]

!!!!!! wrote: »

Since you are allowed to use a set top box to listen to radio only then you must also be allowed the leeway to get the box set up.

WRONG.

Remember that it is legal to own a flick knife, but not to buy one.

Likewise, it is legal to listen to TV sound (via a STB) without a licence, but it's not legal to watch the TV broadcast, for the purpose of setting it up, unless you are a television dealer.

System

But you are not watching a TV broadcast, you are using the menus on the STB. Although what you would need to set up on an STB to listen to the radio is anybody's guess. Channel selection I assume.

[Deleted User]

!!!!!! wrote: »

But you are not watching a TV broadcast, you are using the menus on the STB.

The moment the set up is completed, a TV Channel (usually BBC1) is displayed.

Although what you would need to set up on an STB to listen to the radio is anybody's guess.

I assume you would set it up in the normal way (is there an "un-normal" way?), since the set up tunes in all TV and radio channels.

System

The bottom line is that the BBC, TV Licensing and the Government take the stance that

Part 4 of the Communications Act 2003 makes it an offence to install or use a television receiver to watch or record any television programmes as they're being shown on television without a valid TV Licence. The Act empowers the BBC to make and amend the terms and conditions of a licence. It allows the government to make regulations to exempt or reduce the licence fee for certain persons in certain circumstances.

The amendments to the terms and conditions can be summarised as the FAQs and other bits on the TV Licensing site. How you or I interpret the 2003 Telecommunivation Act is neither here nor there.

There is provision for the blind/partially sighted to listen to radio via a set top box (see RNIB site) so there must be methods of setting things up and the allowance to have a monitor to do so which is acceptable to the licensing authorities.

SwimmerPete

Buzby wrote: »

Sorry, which law is this? The Communications Act says nothing of the sort. If you are 'equipped' to receive these broadcasts, you have the tools to commit the crime - and this leaves you exposed should your protestations of innocence are disbelieved by the judge.

Perhaps you should check before laying down your version of the law. I repeat: the Broadcast Sound Reception Licence was abolished in 1971. No licence is required to listen to broadcast sound (or as we usually describe it: radio) whatever the source - be it radio, TV sound, little green men from Mars.

As long as no way of displaying a picture is connected, a Freeview or Freesat box is legally a broadcast sound receiver. This does NOT include digiboxes with hard drives or other means to record TV programmes. You will find that TV Licensing's website will confirm.

Likewise, the law allows TV equipment to serviced and/or set-up without any licence needed. Again if you check your facts you will find that TV dealers can display any number of TV sets working on their premises and no TV licence is required - although a TV set installed in the dealer's staff room does need a licence. That concession has always existed - in my younger days TV sets were rare and a new TV didn't need a licence until the TV and its aerial were fully set up by the dealer. Only then was a TV licence necessary. Of course prior to 1971 radios were also licenced although this was usually incorporated in a combined TV/Radio licence.

Again: a TV can be connected to a digibox to view the menus to facilitate setting-up. This comes under "repair and set-up", again TV Licensing will confirm. Settting-up can be done by dealer/engineer, friend or even the owner - the important point is that the TV must be disconnected as soon as the set-up has been completed.

I've been involved with radio/electronics engineering for 60 years so do know just a little about the subject.

[Deleted User]

!!!!!! wrote: »

The bottom line is that the BBC, TV Licensing and the Government take the stance that

The crucial bit there is "to watch or record any television programmes as they're being shown on television.

There is no requirement for a licence, to listen to television programmes, via an audio only set up.

How you or I interpret the 2003 Telecommunivation Act is neither here nor there.

It's not a matter of how we interpret the law. It's a matter of what the law says, and it says a licence is required to watch a programme if it is "received at the same time (or virtually the same time) as it is received by members of the public by virtue of its being broadcast or distributed as part of that service".

There is provision for the blind/partially sighted to listen to radio via a set top box (see RNIB site) so there must be methods of setting things up and the allowance to have a monitor to do so which is acceptable to the licensing authorities.

Of course there are methods fir setting it up.

Of the top of my head, there are the following options:-

1. Get a Television Dealer to deliver the STB, set it up with a portable TV, then take away the TV.

2. Set up the STB before your licence expires/is cancelled.

3. Get a licensed relative/friend/neighbour to set it up for you, at their address, then deliver it to you.

[Deleted User]

SwimmerPete wrote: »

Setting-up can be done by dealer/engineer, friend or even the owner

No it can't.

The exemption only applies to a "dealer in television receivers".

Cornucopia

There are further details to be had from the Statutory Instrument, which is referenced by the legislation.

TV Licence - who'd have thought it could be so complicated?

giraffe69

TV Licence - who'd have thought it could be so complicated?

It's not all that complicated. The country splits into three.
Group 1 (the majority) pay their TV licence each year
Group 2 ( a tiny minority) don't watch or record any live TV, perhaps don't even have any equipment that could enable this and don't need a licence.
Group 3 (I suspect bigger than Group 2) fail to get a licence when they should have one and are sometimes caught and fined. If this happens or is threatened or they are asked about whether they have a licence or not then expect:
a. Comments about the amusing renamed(not) Crapita
b. Their inalienable right to refuse entry to anyone coming to their house
c. Horror stories about innocent non licence holders being beaten up or threatened or duped into signing forms.
d. A diatribe about the BBC
e. Any combination of the above

Cornucopia

But how can we/the BBC not know those figures - surely they are critical to managing licence fee enforcement?

As for your points (a)-(e).

(a) is fair comment about the (lack of) wisdom of outsourcing of public services (and the renaming of Capita goes wider than just the TVL involvement)

(b) is true, and ultimately renders TVL a bit powerless. Do you think that TVL should be allowed to go on a fishing trip for illegal behaviour? And if them, why not every other agency, for every other offence?

(c) sadly is true. there are a number of cases of TVL employees who have engaged in serious offences - perjury, assault, child abuse and rape. the lack of supervision and monitoring that makes for such a poor enforcement system also permits the employment of wholly unsuitable people. The existence of such cases (even if they are only a small number) is not a great advertisement for allowing them into your home voluntarily, I wouldn't have thought.

(d) is anyone's prerogative. If someone doesn't watch TV, I can't really see the point in commenting on it, but as long as the comments are isolated to the shortcomings of the BBC as a law enforcer, then I think it's absolutely fair comment.

Nothing I have said should be taken as condoning licence fee evasion.