Is this even legal

jalexa

Cardew wrote: »

In fact the OP uses the term without our 'permission'

What the OP said was "without hoarding our money for their own use without our permission".

What the OP seems to want is quarterly variable direct debit. Something some (perhaps most?) suppliers offer, but AFAIAA not OVO.

Anyway let us not all fall-out, we are on the reasonable and informed wing of forum opinion.

Cardew

jalexa wrote: »

Anyway let us not all fall-out, we are on the reasonable and informed wing of forum opinion.

100% agree about that.

DVardysShadow's posts make a lot of sense, but I genuinely am not clear on the point he is making.

Is he saying they do not have authority to increase the level of DD?

My Credit card, BT and Sky accounts are billed monthly and paid by variable DD. As the amount varies each month, full payment is taken each month.

My Utility bills are billed quarterly also paid with a monthly variable DD. That payment amount might vary perhaps once or twice a year.

Council Tax billed annually and the variable DD takes 10 payments, for the same amount, a year.

That surely is the situation with many people?

Jamie_Carter

Cardew wrote: »

Agreed.

However the OP wanted them to take the exact amount by DD when the bill was due.

I see your point. But the DD should be for the average bill over 12 months. And shouldn't be more unless the account is in debit, in order to bring the balance down, as they are doing in my case.

yangptangkipperbang

Jamie_Carter wrote: »

You have missed the point.

The DD payments should work out at about the average for the twelve months. So in thory at the end of the twelve months the account should be at £0

"Over the year it will balance out"!!!

Reading obviously isn't your strong point.........

yangptangkipperbang

wedgehog wrote: »

Maths was never your strong point then?

It appears to be considerably stronger than yours..............

Cardew

Jamie_Carter wrote: »

I see your point. But the DD should be for the average bill over 12 months. And shouldn't be more unless the account is in debit, in order to bring the balance down, as they are doing in my case.

Firstly the aim is certainly that the monthly DD should be one twelfth of the annual bill e.g Annual bill £1200 so monthly DD is £100.

However that ideal is rarely achieved, especially if the Utility company do not have a good handle on the customer's history of consumption. To achieve a zero balance at the anniversary - usually in Spring -it is often necessary to adjust the DD.

It certainly isn't the case that if your account is credit the DD shouldn't be raised. At this time of the year with winter looming you should be well in credit, as the major expenditure is over the next six months.

If the computer forecasts that your DD is insufficient to achieve a zero balance by Spring, it will raise the DD to achieve that aim even though in mid Sept you are well in credit.

Obviously if you disagree you can present a case to the Utility company and in many cases they will not impliment the increase.

DVardysShadow

Cardew wrote: »

DVardysShadow's posts make a lot of sense, but I genuinely am not clear on the point he is making.

Is he saying they do not have authority to increase the level of DD?

Let's try to put it another way.

The supplier's authority to charge any particular amount on any particular day derives from the contract. The suppliers authority to take that money from a customer's bank account derives from the Direct Debit Mandate. But if there is no authority derived from the contract, then there is no authority under the Direct Debit Mandate

In other words, to take money out of the customer's bank account, the Direct Debit Mandate is a necessary but not sufficient condition.

SO when wedgehog is concerned about the amounts his supplier wishes to charge, I am very concerned to see a statement like

Cardew wrote: »

.... They do indeed 'have your permission' when you signed or agreed the Direct Debit mandate.

All the supplier has is permission to charge amounts which are due under the contract. OP's concern is over what amounts are due under the contract - and until and unless an amount is due under the contract, the DD mandate does not confer any authority to take money.

It is misleading to point OP to the DD mandate as permission to take money, when it is actually the contract which determines what is due. The whole of OP's problem centres around the contract - once OP has agreed about how much is due and when, I doubt he has a problem with the DD mandate.

Jamie_Carter

yangptangkipperbang wrote: »

"Over the year it will balance out"!!!

Reading obviously isn't your strong point.........

That's what I said...so reading obviously isn't your strong point!!!

Jamie_Carter

Cardew wrote: »

Firstly the aim is certainly that the monthly DD should be one twelfth of the annual bill e.g Annual bill £1200 so monthly DD is £100.

However that ideal is rarely achieved, especially if the Utility company do not have a good handle on the customer's history of consumption. To achieve a zero balance at the anniversary - usually in Spring -it is often necessary to adjust the DD.

It certainly isn't the case that if your account is credit the DD shouldn't be raised. At this time of the year with winter looming you should be well in credit, as the major expenditure is over the next six months.

If the computer forecasts that your DD is insufficient to achieve a zero balance by Spring, it will raise the DD to achieve that aim even though in mid Sept you are well in credit.

Obviously if you disagree you can present a case to the Utility company and in many cases they will not impliment the increase.

You have just repeated in a long winded way, what has already been said.

Cardew

Jamie_Carter wrote: »

You have just repeated in a long winded way, what has already been said.

Not so!

This is what you wrote:

But the DD should be for the average bill over 12 months. And shouldn't be more unless the account is in debit, in order to bring the balance down, as they are doing in my case.

There will be times when the account is in credit(like the OP) but the DD will need to increase.(like the OP) in anticipation of the high winter expenditure.