ESA. What's the point when they don't read the flamin form!

schrodie

rogerblack wrote: »

The ESA50 is unfortunately badly worded, and misleads in significant ways.

One wonders if it's badly worded deliberately so as to mislead, afterall we are dealing with the DWP!

ankspon

I went to the medical in a self propelled chair as it was the one i was given,i could not propel myself and was waiting for a replacement chair.My wife pushed me into the building and the room and the assessor pushed me back out to my waiting wife,yet the report said i could propel myself as i arrived in a self propelling chair,forgetting the explanation i gave them and the fact the assessor pushed me out.

Ellejmorgan

challfour wrote: »

What has actually happened is the ESA50 is lagging behind what was actually intended.

Currently you can be awarded DLA - High Mobility on the basis of the walking test, yet fail completely in the ESA mobility test.
They look at the same thing from two different points of view.

DLA - Walking
ESA - Mobilising

When PIP comes in next year you will find that things start to even out. Gone will be the walking test under DLA which is to be replaced by the Mobilising test for PIP.

Making ESA & PIP compatible.

Think of it as simply 'getting about' - walking is only part of it, using aids and adaptions can get you about better.

The old walking test under DLA has gone past it's sell by date. Much the same as the old 'cooking test' under DLA using a traditional cooker. It is to be replaced with what is more common in today's world - the microwave. The idea of cooking food over a fire is something that should now be put into the history books - it's been around since the stone age!

yes but who can live long term on microwave food..
I do hope this is taken into account, I wonder wether it looks at the ability to safely carry food once it's cooked..

schrodie

challfour wrote: »

What has actually happened is the ESA50 is lagging behind what was actually intended.

Currently you can be awarded DLA - High Mobility on the basis of the walking test, yet fail completely in the ESA mobility test.
They look at the same thing from two different points of view.

DLA - Walking
ESA - Mobilising

When PIP comes in next year you will find that things start to even out. Gone will be the walking test under DLA which is to be replaced by the Mobilising test for PIP.

Making ESA & PIP compatible.

Think of it as simply 'getting about' - walking is only part of it, using aids and adaptions can get you about better.

The old walking test under DLA has gone past it's sell by date. Much the same as the old 'cooking test' under DLA using a traditional cooker. It is to be replaced with what is more common in today's world - the microwave. The idea of cooking food over a fire is something that should now be put into the history books - it's been around since the stone age!

ESA & PIP are two totally different and incompatible benefits. You can be awarded the enhanced rate of PIP Mobility if "you cannot move up to 50 metres without using a wheelchair propelled by the claimant." However if you can carry out that activity with respect to the ESA mobilizing descriptors you will not satisfy the SG descriptors. Also PIP can awarded whilst in work ESA not.

Also the cooker test is still in force under PIP also the walking test has been replaced by a 'Moving around' test which "considers an individual’s physical ability to move around. This includes ability to transfer unaided between two seated positions, to move up to 50 metres, up to 200 metres and over 200 metres."

I suggest you check out the PIP Thresholds & Criteria.

dazza-mac

schrodie wrote: »

From Page 26 of the above Handbook:-

"In this activity, the HCP should consider whether a person could potentially use a wheelchair regardless of whether or not they have ever used a wheelchair. In considering this issue, as above, upper limb function and cardiorespiratory status must be taken into account."

Ergo to get into the Support Group via the Mobilising descriptor you have to show that not only can you not walk at least 50m but also can't use a wheelchair to cover the same distance!

It doesn't make sense. I'm not in a wheelchair! How can they judge me on how I may be in a wheelchair? That's like being arrested because I look shifty and could well steal something if the opportunity arose!

Apart from anything else, even if they can assess me on how they think I may be in this mythical invisible chair then they've still arrived at a wrong decision in my view as I have arthritis in one wrist and have constant difficulty with stiffness in shoulder/shoulder blade and neck due to fibromyalgia. I also have constant coccydynia. I feel like jumping off a bridge. I can fully understand the argument that benefit cheats be hauled over the coals, but when you're not one yet made to feel like you are then it's just disgraceful.

This wheelchair lark just makes no sense whatsoever. Does this mean I'll now get one off the DWP in order to mobilise myself around from a to b?

dazza-mac

Parva wrote: »

Just to add further to this, I too was placed in the WRAG group without a face-to-face assessment because I stupidly ticked the 'it varies' box on each of the three main assessment criteria (along with an explanation for each). The fact is that I will always fail at least one of the main three tests on any given day but because I ticked 'it varies' on all three I was passed for WRAG.

It's not worth the worry, I await the day that I am called in and they'll see for themselves how things are. Really, don't stress over it (and don't let Andy try to tell you otherwise).

I have said it over and over to people - even my MP, I genuinely think the suicide rate will increase over all this. That Bloody Iain Duncan Smith and his quote "those in need have no need to worry" is a disgrace to humanity. I have felt depressed for a long time due to constant pain, but now I also go to bed at night even more depressed because of the stress and worry and the feeling that I'm considered to be a liar.

Cpt.Scarlet

dazza-mac wrote: »

It doesn't make sense. I'm not in a wheelchair! How can they judge me on how I may be in a wheelchair? That's like being arrested because I look shifty and could well steal something if the opportunity arose!

Apart from anything else, even if they can assess me on how they think I may be in this mythical invisible chair then they've still arrived at a wrong decision in my view as I have arthritis in one wrist and have constant difficulty with stiffness in shoulder/shoulder blade and neck due to fibromyalgia. I also have constant coccydynia. I feel like jumping off a bridge. I can fully understand the argument that benefit cheats be hauled over the coals, but when you're not one yet made to feel like you are then it's just disgraceful.

This wheelchair lark just makes no sense whatsoever. Does this mean I'll now get one off the DWP in order to mobilise myself around from a to b?

Whilst I appreciate what you are saying, you need to understand that this is how the descriptors for ESA are written, if you are not able to propel a manual wheelchair, then you need to provide evidence to this effect to the DWP or show that for other reasons it is not reasonable for you to use a wheelchair.

JS477

dazza-mac wrote: »

It doesn't make sense. I'm not in a wheelchair! How can they judge me on how I may be in a wheelchair?

It's purely a cynical way to exclude as many people as the DWP can from getting into the Support Group. If they didn't put this in place then too many people would be getting 15points in the Mobilizing descriptor and being eligible for the SG so as ESA was designed to throw as many people off the old IB onto either JSA or nothing at all they have to narrow the goalposts even more.

Indeed the ESA50 leads the claimant into believing something completely different from the reality of the situation as nowhere on the ESA50 form does it mention the imaginary wheelchair test. Presumably some DWP minion wanting to impress his or her masters went to bed one night and woke up having dreamt up this rather underhand and sneaky trap!!

Ellejmorgan

I'm in the position of not being able to self propel, have lower and upper spinal problems but i'm still in the WRAG.. , OP it's not about you getting back to work it's about numbers and the less claimants the better..

You will just need to appeal and hang in there..even if you are put in the SG, people are being put there for 6 months then assessed again..

This will change there are MP's fighting our corner, you just need to hang in there

dazza-mac

JS477 wrote: »

It's purely a cynical way to exclude as many people as the DWP can from getting into the Support Group. If they didn't put this in place then too many people would be getting 15points in the Mobilizing descriptor and being eligible for the SG so as ESA was designed to throw as many people off the old IB onto either JSA or nothing at all they have to narrow the goalposts even more.

Indeed the ESA50 leads the claimant into believing something completely different from the reality of the situation as nowhere on the ESA50 form does it mention the imaginary wheelchair test. Presumably some DWP minion wanting to impress his or her masters went to bed one night and woke up having dreamt up this rather underhand and sneaky trap!!

It doesn't matter how many times I try and understand it, it makes no sense to me how a person can be judged on how they may get about in a wheelchair - when they don't have one.

Would they consider a cystic fribrosis sufferer fit because they would be if they had healthy lungs!?